Woman killed by Black Bear in Oilsands camp

[schteve_d]

I was talking today with people at work (not far from where this happened). I was saying that the danger for me is that I have had so many encounters with black bears, in Northern Alberta and on Vancouver Island, that I no longer even think of them as dangerous, or treat an encounter with them with the fear that I probably should. I've been within feet of black bears many times and have always essentially shooed them away. I've had two dogs that are really not that big or all that tough that love nothing more than chasing a black bear for fun.
Black bears really are for the most part sissies. This was a really odd encounter but those first few weeks after hibernation are I suppose the most dangerous to encounter them.
Grizzlys, now that's a different story, they scare the bejeezus out of me. I always carry bear spray when hiking in grizzly territory.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Something I am surprised by at many of these remote sites, is the lack of dogs.

You would imagine if the security team employed 3 or 4 large breed but well trained dogs, bear encounters would be decreased by a large margin.

Actually, they tell you that if you are hiking in bear country, it is best to leave man's best friend at home.

The dog might be snooping around, come upon a bear, and then go running back to Mommy or Daddy, with the bear in hot pursuit.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Bear encounters of this type are extremely rare. Requiring all employees to carry bear spray would probably be more effective...and more cost effective for the companies.

Suncor employees are required to carry bear spray with them if they are out in the bush.

However, this attack apparently happened in a heavily industrialized part of the camp where bears are not common at all.

The news is now saying that the 6 employees with this woman also water bombed the bear etc and although he would retreat a bit, he always came back. This bear was very determined and his behaviour is totally abnormal.

I really think this has something to do with the fact that bears have just come out of hibernation and they just do not exhibit the same type of behaviour then as they do other times in the year.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Maybe I'm too nonchalant about bears, because that sounds like extreme overkill to me.

I'm curious what the odds of being mugged or raped are compared to the odds of a bear attack. For example, what should an outdoor woman's first purchase be? Pepper spray or bear spray?

I might be totally out to lunch and naïve for not worrying about bears, but every one I've encountered has had zero interest in hanging around to investigate the human further.

Only the knife seems overkill to me but to each their own. There are 2 or 3 fatalities it seems each year in North America. I dont think any people have died if they had bear spray in an accessible location. Falling off stuff and getting lost are a greater reason for deaths in the outdoors. Drowning too.

Then you get the wierd ones like the guy who was gored by a mountain goat and died a few years ago in the Olympics.

I see bear spray as something that only weighs about 12 ozs, and is more likely to be used on a bear than explode in my car so its adds to safety. I have friends who had to use it on a bear they spooked and it worked. Also going solo which I do a few times a year in fairly remote areas increases your risk of encounter so I think it is a wise choice.

If you go to some US hiking forums you can debate how big of gun you need to take to go on a day hike.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

You would imagine if the security team employed 3 or 4 large breed but well trained dogs, bear encounters would be decreased by a large margin.

The "security team" you speak of are a group of highly un-trained people who are given air horns and a truck to "scare" off bears. Who do more to just scare the bears and make them more dangerous, IMO. I don't want to see them with trained dogs.

Personally I think being allowed to carry bear spray would make much more sense.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by redforever

Suncor employees are required to carry bear spray with them if they are out in the bush.

However, this attack apparently happened in a heavily industrialized part of the camp where bears are not common at all.

The news is now saying that the 6 employees with this woman also water bombed the bear etc and although he would retreat a bit, he always came back. This bear was very determined and his behaviour is totally abnormal.

I really think this has something to do with the fact that bears have just come out of hibernation and they just do not exhibit the same type of behaviour then as they do other times in the year.

From stories I have heard/read regarding a bear behaving abnormally and attacking, it always seems to be a Black bear, hardly ever a Grizzly. They seem to be a little crazier when desperate, sick or injured.

I have had a number of bear encounters with both Grizzly and Black bears camping, hiking and canoeing in AB, BC, ON and PQ and have only once been scared. A young grizzly joined us at our camp site at The Point campground in the middle of the afternoon and seemed set on hanging out between the trail out and us for a bit. The story was worth the temporary scare and was an amazing experience.

[GP_Matt]

Keep in mind that bear spray is considered expired if it has frozen. Every year we throw out a bunch that were left in trucks through the winter.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Maybe I'm too nonchalant about bears, because that sounds like extreme overkill to me.

I'm curious what the odds of being mugged or raped are compared to the odds of a bear attack. For example, what should an outdoor woman's first purchase be? Pepper spray or bear spray?

I might be totally out to lunch and naïve for not worrying about bears, but every one I've encountered has had zero interest in hanging around to investigate the human further.

It really depends where you go around Kananaskis. I tend to spend the majority of my time around the upper and lower lakes, and I would say I see a bear 1/5 of the time. Usually they are on the banks around the lakes and rivers, and I have seen them casually meander through some of the campgrounds there.

I have never had one charge me, but all it takes is once, so I tend to err on the side of caution.

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

Keep in mind that bear spray is considered expired if it has frozen. Every year we throw out a bunch that were left in trucks through the winter.

What's your source on this? I have never heard such info. A quick google search shows that quite a bit of discussion around this that predominantly indicates there is no issue with freezing. I have also come across multiple manufacturers websites that address this issue in their product instructions or faq and jndicate that freezing should cause no significant deterioration to the product.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by GGG

Only the knife seems overkill to me but to each their own. There are 2 or 3 fatalities it seems each year in North America.

I just looked it up, and for Black Bears specifically, it's 15 fatalities in 14 years in just Canada. Way more than I would have guessed. Maybe I should go bear spray shopping...

[pylon]

Originally Posted by GGG

Only the knife seems overkill to me but to each their own.

LOL, I think have had a few people startled by it I have run into on hiking paths. But if you do ever get lost, a high quality knife can be a life saver for just survival basics. With a big bowie, you can take down small trees with it for firewood, and use it to build a shelter. I don't even carry my hatchet in my trailer anymore, as it is awesome for chopping up kindling. The beating mine has taken just splitting wood would destroy most knives. It is a scary knife though.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

What's your source on this? I have never heard such info. A quick google search shows that quite a bit of discussion around this that predominantly indicates there is no issue with freezing. I have also come across multiple manufacturers websites that address this issue in their product instructions or faq and jndicate that freezing should cause no significant deterioration to the product.

It could be just a legend. It is in our safety manual, but that doesn't mean it was sourced.
Anecdotally we had someone test the theory this year and sprayed a can that had sat out all winter against a new can and the range on the new can was about double.

[FlamesAddiction]

Reading the CBC story, it sounds like the attack went on for an hour with bear just playing with her. People were throwing stuff at it and making noise. They even tried using a water canon, and the bear just kept attacking her until she was dead. Apparently all the methods that usually work to scare bears, didn't work for this one.

I took a wild life biology course in university and there was a lesson about recognizing predatory black bear behaviour. I recall reading learning how wild animals and specifically black bears, sometimes just have individuals that are just easy to agitate and are unpredictable. For whatever reason, they don't follow the norm or respond the way most of the species do. They compared them to anti-social people and said that animals are not exempt from that sort of notion. Coincidentally, one of the students in the class was the son of an oil rigger killed by a black bear in Alberta in the 1990s apparently.

Still, I can't believe that it took over an hour for someone with a gun to show up.

[puckluck2]

How is a knife overkill? It's cheap, it weighs pretty much nothing, and you can carry it without even noticing it's on you.

Jeez some of you make it seem like you guys encounter the care bears.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

How is a knife overkill? It's cheap, it weighs pretty much nothing, and you can carry it without even noticing it's on you.

Jeez some of you make it seem like you guys encounter the care bears.

I don't believe a knife has ever been used successfully in defending your self from a bear. Let me find that bear study the guy from the U of C did which is pretty good.

[Flash Walken]

I think it is nuts to go out into any kind of forest or bush without a blade.

I don't see why people think he's overreacting. I carry a 4 inch knife with me on trails along the BC coast.

In fact, I think it is negligent to not bring a rain jacket and a knife with you for any kind of trail or hike. I don't have illusions of my ability to defend myself with a 4 inch blade against a bear, but there are so many potential uses I would feel uncomfortable not having it.

Edit: and for any kind of extended or remote hiking, I definitely pack my hatchet on my backpack.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think it is nuts to go out into any kind of forest or bush without a blade.

I don't see why people think he's overreacting. I carry a 4 inch knife with me on trails along the BC coast.

In fact, I think it is negligent to not bring a rain jacket and a knife with you for any kind of trail or hike. I don't have illusions of my ability to defend myself with a 4 inch blade against a bear, but there are so many potential uses I would feel uncomfortable not having it.

Edit: and for any kind of extended or remote hiking, I definitely pack my hatchet on my backpack.

Yup, I used to carry a hatchet too, but when I saw a guy demolishing a log into kindling with a the same 10" bowie I bought, I switched to that, since I find it more versatile. For 60 bucks, it's an awesome investment.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Still, I can't believe that it took over an hour for someone with a gun to show up.

Why is that unbelievable?

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Reading the CBC story, it sounds like the attack went on for an hour with bear just playing with her. People were throwing stuff at it and making noise. They even tried using a water canon, and the bear just kept attacking her until she was dead. Apparently all the methods that usually work to scare bears, didn't work for this one.

I took a wild life biology course in university and there was a lesson about recognizing predatory black bear behaviour. I recall reading learning how wild animals and specifically black bears, sometimes just have individuals that are just easy to agitate and are unpredictable. For whatever reason, they don't follow the norm or respond the way most of the species do. They compared them to anti-social people and said that animals are not exempt from that sort of notion. Coincidentally, one of the students in the class was the son of an oil rigger killed by a black bear in Alberta in the 1990s apparently.

Still, I can't believe that it took over an hour for someone with a gun to show up.

That's horrifying. I was thinking/assuming it was related to the long winter and extended snow cover, so the bear(s) must be really hungry and desperate for food at this point. Or it was injured. Or both.

But that doesn't really explain why it took so long and wouldn't be scared away.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

Why is that unbelievable?

I just think that in a remote area, there should be people available relatively quickly who have the training to shoot a dangerous animal. Back when I was working up north, we used to hire someone with those credentials to watch over us while we worked.

Originally Posted by Peanut

That's horrifying. I was thinking/assuming it was related to the long winter and extended snow cover, so the bear(s) must be really hungry and desperate for food at this point. Or it was injured. Or both.

But that doesn't really explain why it took so long and wouldn't be scared away.

Yeah, here's the link:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...gist-1.2638210