[News] Baertschi at the World Championships. UPD: Broken rib. out for the tourney

[c.t.ner]

Good lord, has there been a more polarizing prospect on this board since Dustin Boyd.

Can't we just chalk it up to Sven having the perfect storm for a really horrible year? Kid, he went from playing top line minutes with Hudler/Monahan at the beginning of the year to being benched, called out by the new GM and being sent down to the AHL after a year of being called the team saviour by previous management and fan expectations.

And as much as he's had a bad year, let's not forget that every scouting report before this season talked about Sven's strong character and compete level.

At this point the season's over. Let the kid put it behind him. I hope Sven plays well for switzerland and has a really strong tournament.

[Falclore]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Schieffle is a top 2 centre on basically any NHL team and Baertschi is........???

Schieffle is not at that level yet on most teams. Not better than Crosby / Malkin; Kopitar / Richards; Krejci / Bergeron; Couture / Thorton / Pavelski; Stall / Stall; Duchense / MacKinnon. That is without even looking at most teams. Even a weaker center lineup like the wild I would take Koivu and Grandlund over Schieffle right now. He may get there one day, but not there today. If Winnipeg makes the playoffs next year, these crazy Jets posts will go through the roof!

[T@T]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

And Ferland was bigger and stronger.

Poirier is not at all pro strong and not near where he will be when he is 21-22.

There is a reason there are no players in the NFL at age 20. Strength is more important in the NFL....

Because NFL rules say 3 years after graduating high school doesn't mean some of these kids couldn't dominate strength wise.

Josh Chapman at only 6'0 tall benched 580lbs while at Alabama,Trent Richardson at 5'9 benched 450lbs at age 19. Travis Frederick,Mike Martin and plenty more could bench over 500lbs while in college.

And there have been players in the NFL at age 20, Amobi Okoye was 19 when he was drafted by Houston.

To me all this stength stuff is moot anyway, football is a total different game and skilled NHL players don't need to pound people to be effective.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

But there's a reason that's the rule

I would imagine there are a few reasons, one certainly being the mentioned physical size and readiness.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

if backlund has shown me anything, it is that most prospects need time before they can translate their game to the NHL and have success doing so.

We need to let sven grow into the league, not throw him in and consider him a bust when there isn't immediate results/success.

If there is belief in his skill level, there is belief in his work ethic, then there needs to be some faith in his development.

I agree. Problem is CP people wants instant results. They got teased with Baerstchi scoring in his first few games and most is even predicting he'll be the rookie of the year the next season. When he struggled in the NHL, a lot of people think he is a bust and Flames should trade him.

I think Sven got the skills but he is just ovewhelm in his first season. He lost some confidence but I think he just needs something to boost his confidence back. I am sure even if he doesn't make it at the beginning of the next season, he'll be with the Flames sometime and won't look back.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by T@T

Because NFL rules say 3 years after graduating high school doesn't mean some of these kids couldn't dominate strength wise.

Josh Chapman at only 6'0 tall benched 580lbs while at Alabama,Trent Richardson at 5'9 benched 450lbs at age 19. Travis Frederick,Mike Martin and plenty more could bench over 500lbs while in college.

And there have been players in the NFL at age 20, Amobi Okoye was 19 when he was drafted by Houston.

To me all this stength stuff is moot anyway, football is a total different game and skilled NHL players don't need to pound people to be effective.

Not to get too off topic, but there are maybe one or two kids a year who could hang in the NFL two years out of high school.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Not to get too off topic, but there are maybe one or two kids a year who could hang in the NFL two years out of high school.

You may be right but how on earth could you possibly know this? there are a tonne of talented 19-20 year old athletes in football, Andrew Luck probably could have been a top 20 quarterback at 18!

[Vulcan]

Let me start with Baertshi has tremendous skills and if he can get it together will be a great player. On the minus side this season has been a step back and he only has one more season of being waiver ineligible, so he has to put it together fairly soon.

I put some of the blame on Flames prior management, the media and us fans for putting him on a pedestal and making outrageous predictions for his rookie season, but still he needs to get over it and come down to earth in his own mind. Backlund went through a little bit of the same and is coming out pretty well so I hope the same can happen with Sven.

One more thought is that he's been passed by Granlund and Reinhart and we have a new player in Gaudreau who is very much like Sven, so I wouldn't be disappointed if Sven was traded.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Let me start with Baertshi has tremendous skills and if he can get it together will be a great player. On the minus side this season has been a step back and he only has one more season of being waiver ineligible, so he has to put it together fairly soon.

I put some of the blame on Flames prior management, the media and us fans for putting him on a pedestal and making outrageous predictions for his rookie season, but still he needs to get over it and come down to earth in his own mind. Backlund went through a little bit of the same and is coming out pretty well so I hope the same can happen with Sven.

One more thought is that he's been passed by Granlund and Reinhart and we have a new player in Gaudreau who is very much like Sven, so I wouldn't be disappointed if Sven was traded.

I agree. Mostly because Baertschi has been passed by other prospects, but also because the Flames top prospects all appear to be small left wingers. They are very deep in this position. So that means one (or 2 or 3) of Sven, Johnny, Granlund, Hudler, need to go.

[AcGold]

You can take Johnny off that list. He's not going anywhere

[Alberta_Beef]

I read an article on the Flames website about Sven going to the WC. Sounds like he has the right attitude, said he is going to use it as an opportunity to show Treliving what he can do.

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I read an article on the Flames website about Sven going to the WC. Sounds like he has the right attitude, said he is going to use it as an opportunity to show Treliving what he can do.

He's had his share of issues this year, but if you go back and check the quotes from him he's had a good attitude about his situation for a while now.Hopefully a few bounces go his way over the next few weeks, and he can enter summer training with some confidence.

[PeteMoss]

Brodie did not play an overage year in the ohl. Poirier would be an overage player if he returned.

Sven if Canadian would have played three seasons in the WHL before being drafted and then one afterward. Poirier is in the same boat.

Most players play two years before being drafted and two after. But either way, they are all playing four years. No good prospect goes back for an overage year.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by AcGold

You can take Johnny off that list. He's not going anywhere

[AcGold]

Nope.

[OzSome]

I sure hope Granlund and Gaudreau doesn't struggle next season or when they play in the NHL because I can see people giving up on them so fast and wants them gone right away. I just hope people give our prospects a few years before they call them a bust. I think Backlund proven that it takes longer than what people think to be effective NHLers. Yes I know there are some young players who excelled in their first season in pro hockey but that's a low percentage.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by OzSome

I sure hope Granlund and Gaudreau doesn't struggle next season or when they play in the NHL because I can see people giving up on them so fast and wants them gone right away. I just hope people give our prospects a few years before they call them a bust. I think Backlund proven that it takes longer than what people think to be effective NHLers. Yes I know there are some young players who excelled in their first season in pro hockey but that's a low percentage.

Again this is overreaction. Nobody has called Sven a bust. Some fans are disappointed with his last two seasons and I'm sure even the Flames are to an extent. However the Flames surely haven't given up on him and neither have most fans because most of us know it's a process. That said if he has another sideways season in 2014/15 the heat could be turned up as you want to see improvement.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

I agree. Mostly because Baertschi has been passed by other prospects, but also because the Flames top prospects all appear to be small left wingers. They are very deep in this position. So that means one (or 2 or 3) of Sven, Johnny, Granlund, Hudler, need to go.

Granlund plays center. And maybe some of these players should make the NHL before worrying about having too many LWers.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by T@T

You may be right but how on earth could you possibly know this? there are a tonne of talented 19-20 year old athletes in football, Andrew Luck probably could have been a top 20 quarterback at 18!

Maybe physically, but come on man. I'm sure you're aware of how different guys are from 18 to even 21. Especially with a position like quarterback. It's more an experience/emotional development thing, where guys get to learn and make mistakes in an environment that won't spit them out like the NFL.

And I know this because of the number of guys who wash out WITH the current age requirements. You start drafting teenagers into the league, and 20% becomes a high water mark for draft picks that make it instead of 50%. In the NHL, even the bigger guys are only tipping the scales in the 230 lb range, and there aren't many of them. In the NFL, every defensive player within ten yards of the LOS is minimum 6"4 260 and runs a 4.6 forty. And then you get to the 'little' guys who are 215 and hit like they're 275.

I can actually relate all of this back to Sven: Some guys take more time. They need the opportunity to hone their skills on lesser stages before they're ready for the main event.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by T@T

You may be right but how on earth could you possibly know this? there are a tonne of talented 19-20 year old athletes in football, Andrew Luck probably could have been a top 20 quarterback at 18!

He was red shirted in 2008 , his Freshman year in Stanford.... as a 19 year old..... he wasn't going be able to play and they wanted to save a year of eligibility. They were 4-8 the year before he enrolled. He started as a 20 year old and they went 5-7. If he was eligible to be drafted into the NFL as a 18 year old he would have been a late round pick if drafted at all.


I have no idea how big and strong he was as an 18 year old but pretty sure he was not 6'4" 240 that he was as a 23 year old NFL rookie.

You just picking the best young player in the world and him clearly not being NFL ready at ages 18 through 20 kind of blows up your argument.