Ellen Page comes out

[strombad]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Agreed, it was hypocritical of me. But it does not negate the point. Your thoughts are still bullying and belittling in nature and do require a response.











I was communicating respectfully. Calling you out and the few others I mentioned out on your schtick was a bonus. I mean since DA decided to call us thankers out who hadn't even made a post in this thread, fair is fair.



There's the belittling.. keep it coming. Smug, pretentious and typical. You don't require people to hear what you have to say but you sure do like putting it out there....a lot. Especially when it comes to questioning other's character on a topic you are passionate about. If you could read properly you would see on this topic in particular that we are on the same page save but a few small variances.



Again, stop posting like you're better than others and on a higher platform and discuss the topic in question with better accumen. Or you could just go F*** yourself. At this point I don't really care.



There's no clearly hurt feeling here, I think you need to adjust your emotional recognition radar, because my feelings are clearly the opposite.



And the Critical thinking part of your post... seriously? I didn't make a F***ing post in this thread. I responded to the post appropriately.

I simply take issue with you calling me a big mouthed bully. Don't project.

I'm into discussion, I love debate. I'll debate anything to death, and then I'll debate it once more. If you don't like it, don't engage. I'm easy to put to bed, but I'll discuss anything with anyone that wants to have a go at it. Your feelings very clearly ARE hurt, because I wasn't belittling you, or claiming to be better. I'm narcissistic, self righteous, ego-driven, probably exhausting to listen to, fully engaged, passionate, and persistent. I'm fine with that, so what are you

I don't care if you like what I have to say, it's my right to say it. It's also your right to question me on it, and I'll always be happy to respond. I post a lot because I enjoy engaging, does it matter to you?

You have no problem calling me names, telling me to "go F yourself", and I'M the bully? I'm a little harsh, but I do my absolute best to keep my criticisms to thoughts, ideas, and actions, while doing my best not to get personal and petty. You can't say the same.

I'm fine with who I am.

I'm also not DA, so why you had to call me out in light of something they did that you didn't like is beyond me. You seem to have just enjoyed the chance to personally attack multiple posters in one go. Good for you.

[djsFlames]

Good for her I guess.

I just hate that people feel they can't be honest about themselves outright. Not like it's saying you have some rare deadly and contagious disease. It's a common thing. Some of my friends are gay, but it really doesn't even phase me. It actually makes joking about dirty/sexual things more fun since it's out in the open. Even when I found out not having any idea prior I was like alright, cool, it makes a lot of sense now. But I didn't make a deal out of it. Cause it's nothing to make a deal out of. They're my friends, and they'll continue to be my friends, I befriended them for reasons that have nothing to do with their preference in gender.

We need less organizations trying to inspire people to be accepting of themselves, and more organizations telling people/kids to stop being judgemental d###bags and shake that kind of mentality early. I know all about how judgemental people can be, and even the most polite people will treat you differently at the slightest hint that something is different about you. People need to get their heads out of their rears and realize that nobody, including themselves, is perfect. Nor is anybody the same. But we're all human. It's just weird and ####ed up to me that when some particular people sense that something is off about someone their instinct is to ridicule it and make a deal out of it in their own way. Just an awful way to be wired.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by kirant

Doesn't that kind of answer the question of who actually should care? I don't really hold an opinion, but the post seemed to answer the question posed.

To you, this topic may not be terribly important. And I think that's fair - the information may not be too relevant for you. But for those who do do struggle with their own identity and for people who feel that this group needs the additional support of celebrities coming forward, this is a relevant topic for them.

Generally when someone says who cares, it doesn't actually mean it literally. It's usually just a nicer way of saying "I don't give a crap"

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You really seem to care.

I don't care about dress shoes, Roll Up The Rim To Win, or Xbox vs. Playstation, so I don't bother opening those topics. You don't care about Ellen Page being gay, but here you are opening the topic, commenting on it, and pretty much getting into an argument about it.

The "I Don't Care" sentiment seems to be more about "I'm tired of hearing about gay people" and less about "I have no opinion about other people's sexuality, so I don't care if she's gay or not".

Am I completely off?

You are completely off. One can care about the topic of equal rights without caring about the sexuality of individual people, in fact isn't that what we should be striving for?

Also depending on the time of day and how bored I am I do quite often read and comment on subjects I care noting about and I am pretty sure I am not the only one.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Good for her I guess.

I just hate that people feel they can't be honest about themselves outright. Not like it's saying you have some rare deadly and contagious disease. It's a common thing. Some of my friends are gay, but it really doesn't even phase me. It actually makes joking about dirty/sexual things more fun since it's out in the open. Even when I found out not having any idea prior I was like alright, cool, it makes a lot of sense now. But I didn't make a deal out of it. Cause it's nothing to make a deal out of. They're my friends, and they'll continue to be my friends, I befriended them for reasons that have nothing to do with their preference in gender.

We need less organizations trying to inspire people to be accepting of themselves, and more organizations telling people/kids to stop being judgemental d###bags and shake that kind of mentality early. I know all about how judgemental people can be, and even the most polite people will treat you differently at the slightest hint that something is different about you. People need to get their heads out of their rears and realize that nobody, including themselves, is perfect. Nor is anybody the same. But we're all human. It's just weird and ####ed up to me that when some particular people sense that something is off about someone their instinct is to ridicule it and make a deal out of it in their own way. Just an awful way to be wired.

This is really true.

An anti-prick group would do so much more good than a pro-specific cause group because more often than not the people that torture the gay kid in school for being different are the same ones beating up on the geek, ridiculing the fat kid and telling anyone that listened that this girl is easy... etc.

Alot of times the gay kid being picked on is not even a gay rights thing, it's a being different thing and it's just an ####### looking for a way to feel better about themselves by putting someone else down.

[Dion]

I had an uncle who was gay and the only people he told were his immediate family. Most of his neighbours knew and frankly it didn't seem to bother them one bit. They treated him and his partner like they would treat anyone else.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Dion

I had an uncle who was gay and the only people he told were his immediate family. Most of his neighbours knew and frankly it didn't seem to bother them one bit. They treated him and his partner like they would treat anyone else.

Basically the way it should happen these days with gay celebrities. They should just live their lives and people will figure it out on their own. It would make a much more meaningful statement to the gay community and society in general that being gay is normal and nothing to be ashamed about. Having a press release so the TMZ type media outlets can go nuts about it, makes being gay a much bigger deal than it should be nowadays.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Fire

Basically the way it should happen these days with gay celebrities. They should just live their lives and people will figure it out on their own. It would make a much more meaningful statement to the gay community and society in general that being gay is normal and nothing to be ashamed about. Having a press release so the TMZ type media outlets can go nuts about it, makes being gay a much bigger deal than it should be nowadays.

To you, maybe it isn't a big deal when a celebrity comes out, but to the little girl who is ashamed for being "different," it can't hurt to know that people she looks up to share her difference. And to the homophobic Missouri football fan who has been cheering for a guy for 4 years only to find out that he's gay, maybe it at least starts to chip away at that homophobia. If you're genuinely fine with gay people but don't feel a need to hear about it, that's fine - they weren't talking to you anyway.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Fire

Basically the way it should happen these days with gay celebrities. They should just live their lives and people will figure it out on their own. It would make a much more meaningful statement to the gay community and society in general that being gay is normal and nothing to be ashamed about. Having a press release so the TMZ type media outlets can go nuts about it, makes being gay a much bigger deal than it should be nowadays.

I thnk it should be left up to individual to decide. If there are rumours or whispers about odd behaviour circulating I can see where a person (Ellen Paige) would come forward to clear the air - especialy if they have a high public profile.

My uncle for the most part tried to hide any behaviour that he thought would make him look gay. He was a high school teacher and feared what would happen to him and his job if he was found out. As a family we recognised the signs but for many years said nothing out of respect. When he did come forward we all said we had an idea he was gay and he responded that he was quite surprised that we knew.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Cheese

FFS the number of jock straps tied in a knot here is just silly.
The fact that the media picks up on the story is inconsequential, the fact she came out at a LGBT event is the only thing that matters. She didnt pick a Republican convention which would really be a news story.

Oh and...I'm not trying to change anyone's thoughts or feelings on the LGBT community by saying who cares on a hockey forum. If that's narcisstic then so be it, but I'm about as far away from that decree as you can get.

A couple of weekends ago we had a humanist event where a gay teen gave a speech about his life and experiences with bullying. Not a dry eye in the auditorium and if you think no one in the LGBT community takes comfort when a celebrity comes out, and often someone they can relate to like her who is a young celeb then your simply dead wrong.

There are LOTS of things to be cynical about, this is not one of them.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Thor

A couple of weekends ago we had a humanist event where a gay teen gave a speech about his life and experiences with bullying. Not a dry eye in the auditorium and if you think no one in the LGBT community takes comfort when a celebrity comes out, and often someone they can relate to like her who is a young celeb then your simply dead wrong.

There are LOTS of things to be cynical about, this is not one of them.

I get it...I do.
I'm sure there are thousands if not millions of stories about Bullies preying on helpless students. Students that have pimple faces, or fat students, short students, lousy athletes, or students that don't have a fantastic mane of hair. All of these kids are affected deeply by this type of behavior. The fact that some kids are picked on because of their sexual preference is horrible as well...but they are not alone in their fights for respectability.

[Thor]

Which is exactly why we celebrate a young star like Ellen standing up and being counted, because I'm sure a lot of young gay girls now have her as a role model and someone that helps them believe that not only are they not alone but that there is life after school where bullying is so common.

The suicide rate amongst LGBT teens is truly shocking, and there is a reason for that.

There is no reason to say "who cares" when it comes to someone coming out, we have such a long way to go in even the west, not to mention Africa, Asia, Russia, the Middle east... We're a global community and Ellen is famous world wide, that gesture of coming out has an impact on young people everywhere.

[Devils'Advocate]

And *I* get that bullying needs to be combatted as its own issue; if we are successful in having gay youth treated as equals, the bullies will find another disenfranchised group to pick on. However, our crime statistics suggest that hate crimes against homosexuals is INCREASING. The suicide rate among homosexual youth is still much higher than the overall population. There is still a stigma, and thus a fear, of being out and being gay.

Fire: If the celebrities said *nothing* then it would just be rumour and innuendo. And gay people would still feel that isolation that their lifestyle is not accepted.

Thor: I guess the gay youth that spoke at your event has major personal issues. So sayeth Erik Estrada. "If gay people need celebrities coming out to accept themselves then I would suggest that their personal issues are larger than just being gay."

Whoopi Goldberg said that seeing Nichelle Nichols on TV inspired her to accomplish her dreams. See an accomplished black woman in the entertainment industry made her feel that despite the prejudices that exist, that she could perservere. But I guess that's her "personal issues".

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Cheese

I get it...I do.
I'm sure there are thousands if not millions of stories about Bullies preying on helpless students. Students that have pimple faces, or fat students, short students, lousy athletes, or students that don't have a fantastic mane of hair. All of these kids are affected deeply by this type of behavior. The fact that some kids are picked on because of their sexual preference is horrible as well...but they are not alone in their fights for respectability.

I don't think there have been kids dragged behind pickups because they're short. No one has been banned from marrying because they have acne. Lawmakers aren't proposing legislation to allow people to refuse service to lousy athletes.

The reason you hear about people like Ellen coming out, is because the LGBT community is organized out of necessity. The US and Canada are better places to live if you're gay than they were 40 years ago, but if you watch Ellen's face you can see how scary it still is to come out, even in front of a group of supporters when you're a successful person. Imagine how it is for a kid in Alabama whose parents think fags deserve to burn in hell.

[ernie]

First this isn't a surprise at all. It was more than rumoured...especially if you lived in the Halifax region for any amount of time as she was breaking into mainstream Hollywood.

Second, it is unfortunately a big deal in todays world. It shouldn't be but it is. And while I get other people get bullied and picked on for being different (and there are campaigns against it that use celebrities), in this case you have states actively trying to pass what I would consider hate laws because of sexual orientation. It is a different beast when is comes to the sexual orientation. Especially in the US. And because it is she ought to be applauded for becoming a tangible example and support for vulnerable teens and others struggling with who they fundamentally are. It shouldn't be a struggle but until it isn't celebrities (and friends and relatives) coming out should be news.

Good for Ellen Page. She undoubtedly helped a lot of people the other day. It sounds silly but while winning some medals in the Olympics and cheering on your country is great, nothing made me more proud to be Canadian in the past couple weeks as that speech.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I agree. It's about celebrities that feel the need to announce their sexual preferences on a big stage.

nope try again, third times a charm?