Cities flying pride flags during Olympics; Support it?

[19Yzerman19]

1... I want us to do everything practically possible to denounce Russia's treatment of the LGBT community, and taking five minutes to change a flag for a couple of weeks is a pretty low bar to hurdle. It should be, by a long shot, the least of the action this country is taking. What I mean is, we shouldn't even be talking about this. We should be talking about which of the much more significant courses of action we plan to take.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

Actually I'm saying there are TONS of better options than the one that's being debated, not a limited amount. I'm suggesting that raising the flag is a complete waste of time, money and energy and is merely an attempt to do something that's likely more about looking and feeling good about oneself than actually doing anything constructive. I then used giving clothes as an example of something that would be a more constructive use of time. Additionally, given we all have limited time to spend on things, it is very true that some people may only have time to do one thing.

Of which responding to you two in this thread has exceeded my daily allocation of time on something like this, which I'd suggest is an even bigger waste of time than raising a rainbow flag.

So exactly how much time energy and money do you think raising this flag cost?

Energy? Mostly on the part of the people that asked for the flag to be raised. Likely a little paper work and a few signatures.

Time? Like 30 seconds?

Money? $15-$20 for the flag?

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by doozwimp

Did you guys notice the German teams Olympic apparel? Obviously a nod of disapproval to Russian policies regarding LGBT equality and its great.

(apologize for the large image. Will put in NSFW tags as soon as i figure out how.

Except the Germans flat out deny it has anything to do with the LGBT rights.

German Olympic official Michael Vesper also denied there was any political message in the outfit design, saying "this is just a fashionable jacket."

[habernac]

Pretty simple to fly a flag. There's no harm in it. Some people ask why there's no hetero pride parade or flags or whatever. It's because we heteros aren't being persecuted for the way we do things.

#1 for me, fly the flag, I have no issues with it.

[mykalberta]

Did the City fly democracy or political freedom flags durring the Beijing Olympics?

If not then no. If they did then yes.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Did the City fly democracy or political freedom flags durring the Beijing Olympics?

If not then no. If they did then yes.

Can you please provide some examples of democracy and political freedom flags?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Can you please provide some examples of democracy and political freedom flags?

We fly it every day!

[undercoverbrother]

http://globalnews.ca/news/1128646/ri...head-of-sochi/

[Byrns]

This flag thing reminds me of Kony 2012. I hope everyone changed their Facebook profile pictures.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by fotze

These gestures seem more about outing dickheads and less about supporting the cause (which I guess does sort of support the cause).

This does nothing to help gay folks in Russia, but it serves the valuable purpose of outing stupid people in the cities making the gesture.

Mission accomplished.

[ken0042]

I added the poll, and the results are anonymous.

[undercoverbrother]

Voted and voted for #1.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by fotze

These gestures seem more about outing dickheads and less about supporting the cause (which I guess does sort of support the cause).

Im curious what the point of having this poll or thread is? It's clear that anyone that says #2 as their answer is going to do be destroyed in the responses.

As for me, I really don't care if they raise the flag. Leave it up even after the games.

[Cowboy89]

Support #1.

It was less than ten years ago that most people on CP and in this country were opposed to gay marriage (myself included). While opinions have softened and tolerance and acceptance increased, we as a country still do not walk the walk even 80% on this issue. Therefore I wholely support flying the flag at city hall, because it's not only in protest of Russia, but also in protest of those people in our peer groups, families, etc. right here in Calgary that still have issues with LGBT acceptance.

I took a long while over the last decade to come around on LGBT rights and consider the opinions provided here for justifications supporting option #2 in this poll to be evidence of a lack of full acceptance (I know the feeling). If you asked me this question five years ago I probably would have responded with choice #2 and provided the same 'Well if you have to run the flag up on this issue where are everyone else's flags?' response.

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

I'd say 2.

We don't fly straight flags. Want to know that you're accepted, well given I don't care and don't differentiate between gay straight, lesbian, or trans(insert option), I think it means you don't need a flag to say "hurrah for you". Maybe that comes across as insensitive, I'm not trying to be, I just don't see it as being accomplishing anything.

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

I just don't see what it accomplishes. Like someone above posted, I'm sure there are bigger problems in the city than something that will merely surve as a self satisfying pat on the back that results in NO CHANGE anywhere else.

I'm going to drop off some more old clothes I want to throw away as well as two jackets at a drop box tomorrow. I think Calgary would be a better place if everyone concerned about this flag would do that instead. Maybe there's some cold homeless people from the LGBT community that would prefer a jacket when it's -20 out over a colourful flag being raised at city hall directed towards a country, that these cold people right now don't care about what's going on or what it represents.

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

You're so childish. You started the thread and offered the answers don't get all sarcastic and passive aggressive when someone replies with one of the options you provided. Pretty much a false dilemma.



Remember guys, even though he gave two options there's only one right one, or you're the bad guy in the thread.

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

Actually I'm saying there are TONS of better options than the one that's being debated, not a limited amount. I'm suggesting that raising the flag is a complete waste of time, money and energy and is merely an attempt to do something that's likely more about looking and feeling good about oneself than actually doing anything constructive. I then used giving clothes as an example of something that would be a more constructive use of time. Additionally, given we all have limited time to spend on things, it is very true that some people may only have time to do one thing.

Of which responding to you two in this thread has exceeded my daily allocation of time on something like this, which I'd suggest is an even bigger waste of time than raising a rainbow flag.

Man, what a group.

I answered the question using the two answers provided and got lambasted.

OP comes back with this childish gem from my first post

"Originally Posted by flameswin
Thanks for your input, Stephen Colbert. Do you also not see colour?"


So I chimed back some additional comments on my opinion, that while I didn't see it as accomplishing much, I figured there was also better ways to spend time and gave an example. Whether or not said example makes much sense to anyone, it was something I figured was a better use my time and projected that onto other people. Oh no, how awful of me. Please let's turn this into a silly debate about how we can choose more than one way to spend our time. Yeah, because I was being so obtuse that I thought one person couldn't do more than one thing at once.

Originally Posted by strombad

I REALLY don't understand this whole "there are more important issues/phony waste of time" line of thinking, it's embarrassing.

RE: Other issues
As has been said, this is not a "support homosexual rights and every homeless person dies". In no way does the flying of this flag negatively affect any other cause. It's like saying "Well I didn't put on my pants this morning because I had to put on my shirt". It's senseless. The flag simply shows support for a group of people who's rights are being infringed upon. This is not an attack on Russia, it's support for a people. It's not going to change the laws, but it IS going to show people around the world that this is a politically safe place that supports you.

If you don't like it, fine. But don't make thinly veiled excuses that simply hide your own lack of compassion or prejudice. The "bigger issues" complex is a well documented excuse used by people not wishing to reveal their negative prejudices.

RE: Phony/Waste of time
Get over yourselves.


If you couldn't tell, I fully support it. It's an incredibly small but nice gesture.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to collect some clothes for the homeless, I won't let the conflict in Syria or homosexual rights stop me, because, you know, I'm a functioning human being.

Wow, if that's not an ignorant accusatory post full of false indictments I'm not sure what would be considered one. This place brings out the most incredulous accustations from posters wanting to put other posters in their appropriate places from their high horses.

Originally Posted by MattyC

So exactly how much time energy and money do you think raising this flag cost?

Energy? Mostly on the part of the people that asked for the flag to be raised. Likely a little paper work and a few signatures.

Time? Like 30 seconds?

Money? $15-$20 for the flag?

I'm not talking about the final act of doing something; I'm talking about the meetings, polling the appropriate people, etc. Don't be so ignorant to think that a bureaucracy like City Hall just says "it'd be nice to raise a flag” and that minute they source the flag and someone to string it up. If I'm wrong I've severely underestimated the ability for City Hall to make a small decision quickly and stand corrected. From my experience with huge companies, bureaucracies, and boards nothing is ever simple and easy. That’s the process I’m suggesting is a waste of time not the physical act of pulling a flag up a pole.

But that’s okay, I’d never think some individuals on CP are capable of not jumping to outrageous conclusions for their opportunity to attack someone and label them a racist or bigot.

Maybe it’s about time for an “I’ve had one drink can I drive thread”.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Im curious what the point of having this poll or thread is? It's clear that anyone that says #2 as their answer is going to do be destroyed in the responses.

I decided to add an anonymous poll so people can freely express their beliefs without having to fear the lynch mobs. We can maybe see how much more work needs to be done.

I do want to say one thing about an earlier comment that hopes everybody updates their facebook. I have a number of facebook friends who are openly gay, and a few others that have been afraid still to come out. If I post something in support of gay rights on FB, that does directly benefit my gay friends. They know they have support from all of their piers, not just some. Unlike cancer, the "gay rights" cause actually can be beaten with moral support.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Can you please provide some examples of democracy and political freedom flags?

The flag they had before communism took over seems it would have been the most logical if they wanted to do a bs protest of democratic rights durring the Beijing Olympics



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of...ublic_of_China

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

Man, what a group.

I answered the question using the two answers provided and got lambasted.

OP comes back with this childish gem from my first post

"Originally Posted by flameswin
Thanks for your input, Stephen Colbert. Do you also not see colour?"


So I chimed back some additional comments on my opinion, that while I didn't see it as accomplishing much, I figured there was also better ways to spend time and gave an example. Whether or not said example makes much sense to anyone, it was something I figured was a better use my time and projected that onto other people. Oh no, how awful of me. Please let's turn this into a silly debate about how we can choose more than one way to spend our time. Yeah, because I was being so obtuse that I thought one person couldn't do more than one thing at once.




Wow, if that's not an ignorant accusatory post full of false indictments I'm not sure what would be considered one. This place brings out the most incredulous accustations from posters wanting to put other posters in their appropriate places from their high horses.



I'm not talking about the final act of doing something; I'm talking about the meetings, polling the appropriate people, etc. Don't be so ignorant to think that a bureaucracy like City Hall just says "it'd be nice to raise a flag” and that minute they source the flag and someone to string it up. If I'm wrong I've severely underestimated the ability for City Hall to make a small decision quickly and stand corrected. From my experience with huge companies, bureaucracies, and boards nothing is ever simple and easy. That’s the process I’m suggesting is a waste of time not the physical act of pulling a flag up a pole.

But that’s okay, I’d never think some individuals on CP are capable of not jumping to outrageous conclusions for their opportunity to attack someone and label them a racist or bigot.

Maybe it’s about time for an “I’ve had one drink can I drive thread”.

It is a very emotionally charged topic, and when that happens people seem to forget to by civil (it happens to me).

We don't fly straight flags. Want to know that you're accepted, well given I don't care and don't differentiate between gay straight, lesbian, or trans(insert option), I think it means you don't need a flag to say "hurrah for you". Maybe that comes across as insensitive, I'm not trying to be, I just don't see it as being accomplishing anything.

I read this as you saying you are not against LCBT peoples, but sadly there are many that are. My belief is that just being "ok" with it is not enough. The flying of the flag raises the topic, on this board and with the parents at both of my kids minor hockey games this weekend. That I think is the point. The flying of the flag raises the dialogue and discussion about the basic human rights, and I am happy to speak my mind in support of them.

[rayne008]

I voted 2.

I am proud as a Canadian that all Canadians enjoy equal rights.

However I'm not a fan of the City using its resources for political messages, I just want my municipal government to be in the business of running the city.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

I'm not talking about the final act of doing something; I'm talking about the meetings, polling the appropriate people, etc. Don't be so ignorant to think that a bureaucracy like City Hall just says "it'd be nice to raise a flag” and that minute they source the flag and someone to string it up. If I'm wrong I've severely underestimated the ability for City Hall to make a small decision quickly and stand corrected. From my experience with huge companies, bureaucracies, and boards nothing is ever simple and easy. That’s the process I’m suggesting is a waste of time not the physical act of pulling a flag up a pole.

That's fine, then can we not be so arrogant as to assume that because there has been a process to get this put up (and it is the job of the government to process citizens requests, no matter how trivial, if they put it through the proper channels. No different than a mom wanting a "children at play" sign put up in a neighborhood), that other "more important" processes are being interupted?

I haven't seen anyone call you a bigot or racist or anything. Just the notion that it's a waste of time and resources seems pretty outlandish given the small amount spent.