48 Hours to Team Selection - Pick Team Canada Dmen - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

N-E-B · 01-06-2014, 12:41 AM

I'm surprised at how many of you guys want Seabrook on there. He's so overrated. He's good and all, but I don't think he's a premiere defenseman.

puckluck2 · 01-06-2014, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

I'm no Phaneuf lover or anything, but seeing Marc-Edouard Vlasic getting significantly higher votes than him shows plenty of bias, never mind the Giordano love.

No it shows that he shouldn't be anywhere near Team Canada because he doesn't deserve it.

stemit14 · 01-06-2014, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Exactly what I voted.

Gio to me is the best well rounded option for an 8th d-man. Will be able to offer the team a bit of everything, while some other choices are more one dimensional.

and Gio > Vlasic

Absolutely... Gio is easily the best shot blocker of all the candidates on forward and defense. And before you say you don't need that... At some point in this tournament, canada is going to have 2 guys in the penalty box and guys like giordano can save games in times like that with his fearless shot blocking. Plus he has the 3rd highest ppg average this season of all the Canadian defencemen. He can play any role they need and can be trusted in all situations.

He has more experience on the big ice than any of the other players by playing in the KHL for a few seasons. Plus I'm pretty sure he scored like 4-5 goals for canada at the world championships a couple years ago. And he's a left-handed defenceman.

djsFlames · 01-06-2014, 01:24 AM

He can do it all, that's the thing. Gio's versatility is greater than that on the rest of the candidates on the list for the 8th slot. Then there's the leadership intangible.

Would be the most useful option (after the top 7) to slot in when required, if Team Canada is willing to set aside the popularity contest.

trackercowe · 01-06-2014, 02:14 AM

I don't know how they can pass up Seabrook, as he's been playing great this year. 31 points and a +22; of course a lot of that is covered by Kieth and other Blackhawks, but with Kieth being the #1 dman in Sochi it makes sense to bring his partner. If they're bringing Kunitz because of his chemistry with Crosby they might as well bring Seabrook because of his chemistry with Keith (also Towes and Sharp).

Playing on the larger ice surface is really his only detriment, and that's the only reason why they could leave him off.

nik- · 01-06-2014, 02:49 AM

Gio also has a season on the big ice, granted it was long ago.

badger89 · 01-06-2014, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackercowe

I don't know how they can pass up Seabrook, as he's been playing great this year. 31 points and a +22; of course a lot of that is covered by Kieth and other Blackhawks, but with Kieth being the #1 dman in Sochi it makes sense to bring his partner. If they're bringing Kunitz because of his chemistry with Crosby they might as well bring Seabrook because of his chemistry with Keith (also Towes and Sharp).

Playing on the larger ice surface is really his only detriment, and that's the only reason why they could leave him off.

He wasn't great last Olympics and ended up not playing with Keith. They had to shelter him then and that was on the smaller NHL ice surface. He hasn't gotten better over the past 4 years. He's a solid NHL defenseman, but shouldn't be anywhere near team Canada.

You Need a Thneed · 01-06-2014, 10:03 AM

I'll admit that I haven't watched him play, but Seabrook is Tied 5th among defensemen in points (2 points from third) and first in +/-.

If that make him a premiere defenseman, I don't know what does.

You Need a Thneed · 01-06-2014, 10:06 AM

Also, when picking players, you have to keep in mind that you can have 7 defensemen dressed for each game. If you want to put Subban out only on the PP, you can easily do so.

Also, there's no Taxi squad, which I've heard a few people mention.

Coach · 01-06-2014, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Also, when picking players, you have to keep in mind that you can have 7 defensemen dressed for each game. If you want to put Subban out only on the PP, you can easily do so.

Also, there's no Taxi squad, which I've heard a few people mention.

But why? Is he that much of a better option on the PP than Weber, Keith, Petro and Doughty? Especially considering those guys aren't the risky player Subban is.

I think when people say Taxi squad, they just mean the guys who are sitting out.

You Need a Thneed · 01-06-2014, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyC

But why? Is he that much of a better option on the PP than Weber, Keith, Petro and Doughty? Especially considering those guys aren't the risky player Subban is.

I think when people say Taxi squad, they just mean the guys who are sitting out.

Certainly true for Subban. It depends on how the couching staff plans to use the 7th dressed dman.

In 2006, teams had 8 d men on the team, plus an additional guy on the taxi squad. There is no tazi squad this time. If Gio would be the 8th D, he could come in and play a game, then sit the next, whatever. This was not an option for the 2006 taxi squads. Bring one of those players onto the team could only be done if another guy was injured, because the other guy would then become ineligible to play the rest of the tournament.

habernac · 01-06-2014, 10:19 AM

Leaving the defending Norris trophy winner off the team would be insane. He moves the puck well, has a better shot than all of them. On big ice he will shine. He's entirely worth the risk.

Coach · 01-06-2014, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habernac

Leaving the defending Norris trophy winner off the team would be insane. He moves the puck well, has a better shot than all of them. On big ice he will shine. He's entirely worth the risk.

I'm not sure he has a better shot than Weber, but he does indeed have a rocket.

Personally, not a fan of his Norris win (I think Chara should have been winning it every year since Lidstrom retired), so I don't take that into account really. Let's not forget who votes on that award, as it is nobody that has any say in any hockey anywhere.

While Subban is progressing, he is still a high-risk player IMO. And just not worth it when his top attributes are equalled by your top guys already.

Knut · 01-06-2014, 10:38 AM

^ I think there is a spot reserved for a pure-offensive type of role...

At the start of the year it was down to Subban, Letang and Green.. and Subban has outplayed the other two by quite a bit. He is on the team.

Canada 02 · 01-06-2014, 10:50 AM

Babcock is a smart coach. He can mitigate risk by playing Subban in situations that take advantage of his skills. He should be on the team, and deployed in offensive zone situations, PP, 4 on 4, down a goal late in a game etc

The Team Canada selection process will be way over analyzed; I doubt anyone in Sweden is questioning the addition of Karlsson; I'd argue that Subban is better defensively than the Senator

nik- · 01-06-2014, 10:53 AM

I think Subban's defensive game is being underrated. He's not Keith, but he's not Butler either.

Senator Clay Davis · 01-06-2014, 10:55 AM

I'm pretty surprised there is even still debate about PK Subban. Canada's biggest issue in 06 was creating offense, so leaving behind the best offensive defensemen the country has seems like a mistake.

Coach · 01-06-2014, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Babcock is a smart coach. He can mitigate risk by playing Subban in situations that take advantage of his skills. He should be on the team, and deployed in offensive zone situations, PP, 4 on 4, down a goal late in a game etc

The Team Canada selection process will be way over analyzed; I doubt anyone in Sweden is questioning the addition of Karlsson; I'd argue that Subban is better defensively than the Senator

Fair point on coaching. To the point about Sweden, who do they have that's better though? The argument I have against Subban is we have Dmen that equal his offensive output, and have elite all-around games in one player. Why take a guy that only has half the package (Comparatively. Remember this about Subban vs the other CDN dmen, not Subban vs the NHL)?

trackercowe · 01-06-2014, 11:22 AM

Kieth is probably the best offensive defenseman right now, not Subban. Heck Kieth would likely be a Hart nominee right now.

Tinordi · 01-06-2014, 11:30 AM

I love the stories we tell ourselves about certain players.

Subban plays against the second toughest competition for the Habs while having the second best possession numbers of any defenceman on the team.

Of all the defencemen in consideration for selection. Subban plays the second most minutes at 5 on 5 behind only Weber. So he's hardly a PP guy.

Sure Subban's taken alot of penalties at 20 but guess who's taken an equal amount? Drew Doughty and there's no discussion of Doughty being a penalty liability. He's a virtual lock for everyone.

Subban makes up for it by drawing 17 penalties. So he's penalty +/- is only -3 while Doughty's is -14.

Finally, though you may not put a tonne of stock into possession stats of the 10 defencemen being considered Subban has the second highest relative corsi at 6.3% five on five. What does that mean? It means that when Subban is on the ice, the Habs' possession goes up 6.3% as to when he's not. Huge. (Vlasic is first).

Anyway, if you believe the advanced stats on Subban it's clear he not only belongs but that he's a lock compared to the other defensemen in question.