Sidney Crosby Appreciation Thread

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Day Tripper

He's closer to the Jagr of this generation than to the Lemieux or Gretzky.

PPG

Crosby is 4th all time

Gretzky 1.92
Mario 1.88
Bossy 1.50
Crosby 1.42

Jagr is 13th at 1.21

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...oints_per_game

if you want to compare eras

goals per game in Crosby's time have swing between 5.02 and 5.7

Jagr's first 6 years were all above 5.8 goals per game (with 5 years above 6, and 1 above 7), and then dipped to Crosby levels starting in 1998/1999

From 1979-1992 GPG never dipped below 6.97

if you assume he scores at the same rate compared to goals per game he's at 1.84 and right up there with Mario and Gretzky, he's streets ahead of Jagr even with Jagr playing during higher scoring times

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

It seems some people don't understand the term "of this generation".

Gretzky was the most dominating player of his time. Crosby is the most dominating player of his time.

Simple parallel

I understand. I just don't think Crosby has it in him to have the Art Ross wrapped up by the All-Star break.

[Rerun]

I'll consider Crosby to be equal to Gretzky when his resume looks like this:

He won nine Hart Trophies, the NHL's most valuable player award, and eight of these were awarded in consecutive years from 1980–87. Gretzky holds the record for most MVP awards of any player in North American professional sports.

Awards

• Lou Kaplan Trophy (WHA rookie of the year) — 1979
• Hart Memorial Trophy (most valuable player) — 1980–87, 1989
• Art Ross Trophy (scoring champion) — 1981–87, 1990, 1991, 1994
• Charlie Conacher Humanitarian Award — 1980
• Conn Smythe Trophy (playoff most valuable player) — 1985, 1988
• Lester B. Pearson Award (outstanding player, voted by the players) — 1982–85, 1987
• Lady Byng Memorial Trophy (sportsmanship) — 1980, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1999
• NHL Goal Scoring leader 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987, now the Maurice Richard Trophy
• NHL Plus/Minus Award (best plus-minus rating) — 1982, 1984^, 1985^, 1987^
• Stanley Cup 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988
• Canada Cup 1984, 1987, 1991
• Clarence S. Campbell Bowl (Western Conference Champions) 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1993
• Presidents' Trophy (NHL Regular Season Champion) 1986, 1987
• Chrysler-Dodge/NHL Performer of the Year – 1985–87
• Lester Patrick Trophy (outstanding service to hockey in the United States) — 1994
• Lou Marsh Trophy (Canadian athlete of the year) — 1982, 1983, 1985, 1989
• Lionel Conacher Award (Canadian male athlete of the year) — 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1989, 1999
• NHL All-Star Game MVP — 1983, 1989, 1999
• NHL MVP - Rendez-vous '87
• Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year: 1982
• Associated Press Male Athlete of the Year 1982
• New York Rangers MVP — 1997-98
• Olympic Gold - Hockey (as Executive Director-Manager) 2002
• World Cup of Hockey (as Executive Director-Manager) 2004

^- Awarded the defunct Emery Edge Trophy

Honors

• 8-Time All-NHL First Team (1981–87, 1991)
• 7-Time All-NHL Second Team (1980, 1988–90, 1994, 1997, 1998)
• In 1998, he was ranked number 1 on The Hockey News' list of the 100 Greatest Hockey Players
• Hockey Hall Of Fame 1999 Inductee
• Officer of the Order of Canada
• First international recipient of the Horatio Alger Award
• Received star on Canada's Walk of Fame
• AP-Athlete Of The Decade, 1980s
• Ranked #1 Canadian Athlete of the Century
• Sports Illustrated's Hockey Player of the Century
• Ranked #5 in both ESPN SportsCentury's and the Associated Press's Top 100 Athletes of the 20th Century (Behind Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan, Babe Ruth, Jim Brown (ESPN) and Jim Thorpe (AP))
• In 2007, he was ranked number 1 in The Hockey News' book The Top 60 Since 1967
• In 2010, he was elected as an inaugural inductee into the World Hockey Association Hall of Fame in the “Legends of the Game” category.
• IIHF Centennial All-Star Team
• Jersey number 99 retired league-wide by NHL

[vilzeh]

We get it Rerun, you have a huge hard on, on Gretzky.

It's impossible to compare the era's they played in, but as for what comes to athleticism, Crosby is sticks and stones better. Also if you compare the GPG average which was 1979-1992 around 6.97 OR MORE and put it to comparison with this era, you get the better picture, also check the goals Gretzky made, goaltenders were horrible, I think 50% of Gretzky's goals were slapshots from the blueline or something.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

We get it Rerun, you have a huge hard on, on Gretzky.

It's impossible to compare the era's they played in, but as for what comes to athleticism, Crosby is sticks and stones better. Also if you compare the GPG average which was 1979-1992 around 6.97 OR MORE and put it to comparison with this era, you get the better picture, also check the goals Gretzky made, goaltenders were horrible, I think 50% of Gretzky's goals were slapshots from the blueline or something.

Well you certainly told me... Crosby has more athleticism than Gretzky. How could I possibly have missed that category when it comes to hockey greatness.

As far as gpg or ppg.. who cares. The real comparison is how they compare to the players of their own era. Gretzky was head and shoulders above everyone else (as shown by the number of awards and honors that he garnered) that he played with and against (with the exception of Lemieux for a couple of years). You can't say the same for Crosby, right now.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by icecube

Sorry, but as great as Sidney Crosby is, he's not in the same league as Gretzky and Lemieux. Not even close.

If you transported Crosby in his exact conditioning today, with his exact skill set to the year 1983, he would score about 300 goals, and have another 300 assists in one season. It would be absolutely hilarious. Goalies were horrible, and goalie coaches didn't even exist until the 90's.

People who never had the chance of watching 70's and 80's hockey live, do not realize how much faster the game is now. Current WHL teams would probably beat an 80's era NHL team. The size and conditioning of the players is on a completely different level now.

The comparison is impossible to make, as so much has changed as far as the athletic component of the game goes.

[vilzeh]

Also I don't think it's a coincidence his goal totals dropped when the goaltenders started to get better. for me Lemieux is the best ever.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by RyZ

I like Sidney Crosby and if he plays a full season this year he's going to win the scoring race by 30-40 pts, he's gonna finish first if he plays 60 games and he should have won the Hart last season as well.

Why should he have won the Hart? He was hurt and the team still managed to win most of their games. There is a trophy for "most outstanding player", which he won. MVP should go to a player that is the main reason their team wins.

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Originally Posted by pylon

If you transported Crosby in his exact conditioning today, with his exact skill set to the year 1983, he would score about 300 goals, and have another 300 assists in one season. It would be absolutely hilarious. Goalies were horrible, and goalie coaches didn't even exist until the 90's.

A post-Hodgkins, broken down Mario managed 91 points in 67 games in 02-03, at the height of clutch and grab hockey. If he couldn't crack 200 points in his prime in the 80's, I wouldn't be so quick with the Crosby hypotheticals.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Super Nintendo Chalmers

A post-Hodgkins, broken down Mario managed 91 points in 67 games in 02-03, at the height of clutch and grab hockey. If he couldn't crack 200 points in his prime in the 80's, I wouldn't be so quick with the Crosby hypotheticals.

Agreed on all except the timing of the heights of clutch and grab. I'm thinking 2003/04


Edit: yeah, not even close. Almost 2 goals per game difference between '92 and' 04

http://www.sportingcharts.com/articl...n-the-nhl.aspx


Edit: I read '91 - '92. Sorry. Carry on

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Rerun

M Lemieux (playing with Gretzky in the '87 Canada Cup made him into the player he was)

haha what?

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by pylon

People who never had the chance of watching 70's and 80's hockey live, do not realize how much faster the game is now. Current WHL teams would probably beat an 80's era NHL team. The size and conditioning of the players is on a completely different level now.

Player might be bigger but I don't what makes anyone think that the conditioning is now miles ahead of what it was in the 70's. Some players were absolutely driven to work out even back then while Gretzky was probably the worst conditioned guy of his time and he still dominated.

[Hanna Sniper]

Crosby is nowhere close period

Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan,Usain Bolt, Pele... I don't see Crosby's name carrying the same weight as these, if his name isn't being compared to these athletes but rather to other hockey players then he is no where close to the level Gretzky achieved

There's good and there's great and we hand out the label of great way to easily

[cam_wmh]

I think it's most amusing, how people use their opinion as absolute or fact.

ie; most of this thread.

[カナダ人です]

For how many years has Crosby been the best player in the world?

Honest question.

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

I think it's most amusing, how people use their opinion as absolute or fact.

ie; most of this thread.

the irony is, you pass your opinion off as if it's a fact

I would like to think that everyone views this as opinions and participate in it because they are interested in others opinions as well even if they don't share the same conclusion.

I guess it's all in the way you read it and how you choose to read it

[Mightyfire89]

Double post.

[Mightyfire89]

Wow, talk about a devolution of a thread.

Crosby's better than every other player in the world right now and we're lucky enough to be able to watch him. That was the point of the comparison. It really doesn't matter if he's better or not better than Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Richard, Howie Morenz or Joe Malone.

[doctajones428]

Crosby is the Gretzky of this generation.

That doesn't mean he's better than or comparable to Gretzky or any other legendary player, but he is the best and most dominating player of his time, as Gretzky was in his time.

Who cares which is better? That isn't what the statement "The Gretzky of this generation" means.

[Hanna Sniper]

if it's not comparing him to Gretzky I can't see how using a term like Gretzky of our times is possible. Because you're using a term that compares Crosby to him

Understand I do get what your are saying, I just don't think Crosby extends past his sport and to see him as the Gretzky of our times really lessens how much the Gretzky of our times was and what he did for our sport. If you didn't know hockey, you still knew who Gretzky was. Thats how big the Gretzky of our times was.

Now don't get me wrong, like many here I would take Mario in a heartbeat over Gretzky just in the same way I would take Toews 10 out of 10 times now... But regardless of personal taste and preference I can't deny the gretzky of our times transcended our sport like no other and to be viewed at that level you need to achieve the same level of acceptance by those outside your own sport

Doesn't make me right or a fact but it is the difference I see