Brian "Friken" McGrattan

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

He has a bunch of hits because that's basically all he can do when he is out there if he isn't fighting.

Blocked shots are an indictment of his skill level, not proof of.

Originally Posted by PARALLEX

So what you're saying is that proportionate to to icetime the other team has the puck significantly more (because otherwise a hit is an interferience penalty and you don't get a blocked shot while your team has the puck) when McGrattan is on the ice.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

Perfect examples of people with a pre-conceived opinion, trying to manipulate a stat to fit their view.

I fully expect this sort of thing.

What I find rich - and amusingly ironic - is when advanced stats proponents do it.

"My stat proves that I am right - and it's an awesome stat. Your stat doesn't prove anything"

Okay then.

[GettinIggyWithIt]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I wasn't the one who brought Butler into the conversation.

But you were the one that said he's the worst player on the team. Hence, I understand why the other poster mentioned Butler. It still doesn't explain your comment, but whatever...

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Perfect examples of people with a pre-conceived opinion, trying to manipulate a stat to fit their view.

I fully expect this sort of thing.

What I find rich - and amusingly ironic - is when advanced stats proponents do it.

"My stat proves that I am right - and it's an awesome stat. Your stat doesn't prove anything"

Okay then.

Excellent reply. You said exactly nothing with a large amount if words. Kudos.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Parallex

No, what he's saying is that if you're blocking a shot it means that the other team is getting shots and thus has control of the puck (which is a bad thing).

To put it another way it's better to be the guy having his shot blocked then to be the guy blocking shots.

Of course it's better to have the puck than to not have it. But only a fool thinks you can have it all the time.

Making the effort to block a shot is a good thing when you don't have the puck.

I don't recall those of you who are trying to criticise him for BSs criticising Bouma the other night.

But that's okay, troll on.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Seriously?

A blocked shot can be recorded for you just by getting hit with the puck, even if you aren't trying to. It's a silly, kind of useless stat when taken at a birds eye view.

Are there good blocked shots? Yup there certainly are, unfortunately they are not qualified in any way currently.

Also, you can rack up a tonne of BS if you are a terrible player because you spend a lot of time in your own zone getting massively outshot. Much like McGrattan tends to.

And this all while starting every single FO shift of this season in the offensive zone.

The question you should be asking is if, given our youth and lack of size, an intimidating player like McGrattan is useful and if, relative to other similar players on other teams, he is more useful and less harmful than most. I don't think anyone would say that a "goon" on any team is going to be above average skill-wise.

Comparing McGrattan to all other players on the team (like Street for example) is pointless as his job description is quite different.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Seriously?

A blocked shot can be recorded for you just by getting hit with the puck, even if you aren't trying to. It's a silly, kind of useless stat when taken at a birds eye view.

Are there good blocked shots? Yup there certainly are, unfortunately they are not qualified in any way currently.

Also, you can rack up a tonne of BS if you are a terrible player because you spend a lot of time in your own zone getting massively outshot. Much like McGrattan tends to.

And this all while starting every single FO shift of this season in the offensive zone.

So are you saying it is not a good idea to base you argument on Stats?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Excellent reply. You said exactly nothing with a large amount if words. Kudos.

Exactly the sort of arrogant reply I would expect from you - nothing to add, so try and attack the poster.

Look again, there is a lesson there that you would be well served to learn (not that I expect you to).
I am out, as this conversation has degenerated to garbage.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So are you saying it is not a good idea to base you argument on Stats?

Stats should be used to back up an argument. But don't rely solely on them. Because as I am trying to point out, not all stats are the same.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Exactly the sort of arrogant reply I would expect from you - nothing to add, so try and attack the poster.

Look again, there is a lesson there that you would be well served to learn (not that I expect you to).
I am out, as this conversation has degenerated to garbage.

Well you are contributing nothing to the conversation. So don't get upset when someone points it out.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Well you are contributing nothing to the conversation. So don't get upset when someone points it out.

yeah okay, dude

knock yourself out

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Stats should be used to back up an argument. But don't rely solely on them. Because as I am trying to point out, not all stats are the same.

Precisely your problem

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Precisely your problem

Point out exactly where I am doing this please and thank you!

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Of course it's better to have the puck than to not have it. But only a fool thinks you can have it all the time.

Of course you can't have it all the time but if you have it an average amount of time you won't end up leading the team in Blocks rel. TOI. Not having the puck leads to having a high ratio like that.

Leading the team in a BS/TOI ratio is a bad thing.

Facts are facts, the Flames are hidiously outshot when he's on the ice and he typically get's the benefit of not having to start in his own zone while doing it.

To put it bluntly... McGrattan sucks.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Actually, the Butler comment is pretty funny.

McGrattan of course can not play defence as well as Butler, but Butler can't be a 4th line grinder/enforcer either. They both fail.

However, McGrattan is a pretty darn good enforcer in this league, and is passable as a 4th liner. Butler is seemingly not a passable 6th defencemen. Before the 'like to see someone else play with O'Brien' comment, Butler looked pretty lousy with Bouwmeester too.

It is funny how arguments erupt from just a simple little bait that should be ignored, and evolve (devolve?) into such funny tangents.

Carry on

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Of course you can't have it all the time but if you have it an average amount of time you won't end up leading the team in Blocks rel. TOI. Not having the puck leads to having a high ratio like that.

Leading the team in a BS/TOI ratio is a bad thing.

Facts are facts, the Flames are hidiously outshot when he's on the ice and he typically get's the benefit of not having to start in his own zone while doing it.

To put it bluntly... McGrattan sucks.

No, blocking shots leads to a high BS ratio.

the stat is not an absolute negative like you are trying to paint it to be - like most things, there is multiple pieces of information to be obtained, both positive and negative.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Parallex

To put it bluntly... McGrattan sucks.

I dare you to say that to him ...

[neo45]

Hartley should stop putting Grats out there in the 3rd period. Only complaint I have, the team doesn't need a heavyweight on the ice at that point of the game.

[the_professsor]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Leading the team in a BS/TOI ratio is a bad thing.

I would be much more concerned if our 4th liners had a low BS/TOI ratio, playing lots and not sacrificing the body at all.

If you expect our 4th line to be talented enough to play in the offensive zone all the time, you might need to re-evaluate your expectations

edit- where did this BS/TOI stat come from? I've never heard it before, and never want to hear it again. I feel like (+/-) * CORSI / pi is more relevant

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, blocking shots leads to a high BS ratio.

Which you can't get unless the other team is taking shots which they can't take unless they have the puck. The act of blocking a shot is a good thing but everything that leads up to it is a bad thing.

The other team getting shots (and by extention controling the puck) is a bad thing. I'd think that'd be obvious.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by the_professsor

edit- where did this BS/TOI stat come from? I've never heard it before, and never want to hear it again.

It's a rate stat you simple take the counting stat (in this case Blocked Shots) and mathamatically apply it to a constant time period.

So for example two players one has 5 blocked shots in 5 minutes of play he'd have a Blocked Shot rate of 60/60 (sixty blocked shots per sixty minutes of play) take another player who has a 5 blocked shots but 15 minutes of play his rate would be 20/60 [(5/15) x 60]=20.

The constant doesn't have to be 60 I just used that as an example. It's just a means of normalizing for different icetimes.