^ "Told you so" is mostly the strategy O'Reilly is advocating. He thinks if people get the choice to sit around and watch certain people floundering under ACA for a year (i.e. the poepl who sign up right away), support for it will continue to lessen. Could backfire (i.e. if ACA is successful), but at least it's rational.
The more radical arm of the Republican party on the other hand has ACA derrangement syndrome. Also they seem to think there is no going back once it is in effect. I don't get it, they could always improve it, replace it, repeal it. It's democracy.
They could never repeal it without committing political suicide. Telling 40 million citizens they no longer have insurance (even if some don't really want it) will never fly once they have it. And given many of those benefiting will be the poorer people (not the latinos and blacks of course!) are part of their base it makes it even harder. Remember, various polls and surveys have shown that the majority of americans on both sides of the aisle support the individual initiatives of the ACA.....provided you don't say that it is Obamacare.
For the Tea Party Republicans this has NOTHING to do with what their constituents want but their own political belief/agenda. It shouldn't matter that their constituents don't actually understand that Obamacare has the stuff they actually support if you don't call it Obamacare. And of course those constituents like the ACA (when not named Obamacare) as it's a Republican idea!
The Tea Party has no intention of actually governing. They just want to make sure the government does nothing.
I have a US National Parks vacation planned, and if the shutdown continues beyond Friday, I'll have to cancel the vacation, which means that the money that I would have spent in certain places won't be spent there (or perhaps anywhere in the US, depending on what I end up doing during my vacation).
I presume that other travelers would take similar action, particularly as they consider whether they should book another vacation (that would be unaffected by Congress buffoonery) or gamble that their limited vacation time won't be affected by a park closure.
So in the span of just a few days, places that are dependent upon tourist dollars are going to see (if they haven't already) a significant decline in tourists and dollars.
I'm sure the tea-party Republicans that live in such places don't care, but as for the rest of the population, they would probably like to have steady employment and income.
ETA: You want some other measurable effects? How about no oil and gas permitting is currently taking place on Federal lands--that is probably hurting a few Calgary companies at the moment.
The biggest impact is no gun permits. That will hurt the republican base more than anything else
There are some significant issues with ACA. Congress and certain powerful friends have obtained exemptions (some temporary, some permanent) from ACA. Why can't inidividuals be given the choice? You could still sign on right away. Or if wary, sit back a year and see how it is working. If it works the way it is supposed to, you might end up supporting it.
I don't agree with them, but even if I did, any substantive arguments for or against the legislation do not matter one lick if the method you're using is legislative terrorism. I don't care how good an argument you have, "Do what I say or I'll shut down the government and put the country into default" is no way to govern.
The Dems will never cave in under those circumstances, and they shouldn't, for the same reason they wouldn't negotiate with terrorists: the next time they have an issue they feel is important they'll just take the country hostage again.
The bottom line for the Tea Party and their friends is:
-They have lost 2 presidential elections where this was a major topic.
-They lost their supreme court cases
and
-two thirds of the voting public either support the ACA, want the ACA to go further or want to see what happens over the first couple of years to see if they like it.
Obama is completely correct when he said they can not let the minority fringe of a party dictate the policy that goes against what the majotiy of citizens have already voted on. To do so sinks the presidential office and really democratic process from that point forward no matter what party holds that office.
So 40 -60 grumpy old men, who hate Obama, for reasons I can only imagine, are dragging the US down, and could have big financial implications globally. Merica, fawk yeah.
Saw him on O'Reilly's show yesterday. He is very unimpressive to say the least.
Had no answers for why the House Republicans couldn't offer up a much more articulable, simple and reasonable compromise to delay the individual mandates for the ACA for a year in exchange for funding the gov't to the end of the calendar year. This would also have the added bonus of being much more easy to get the Republicans message out in the MSM as to what the Democrats have to give in on to end the shutdown.
Also, he couldn't or wouldn't even answer if he himself would support a simpler compromise like that. He dodged every question and answered with rhetoric. Americans will not get behind him in that sorry of a state.
Like I said above, the Republicans are going to be in the wilderness for some years to come. Perhaps a decade.
One thing I really want to call the MSM's coverage of the shutdown out is on how they are exaggerating apparently immediate doom and destruction affects the shutdown is going to have on the US economy. The Federal Reserve's QE/stimulus efforts remain unaffected by the shutdown (which is what is really driving the "recovery" - somewhat artificially in my view, but nonetheless). The Wall Street guys are still going to work. The 80% of American workers who work in the private sector (and who are therefore responsible for 100% of the net taxation revenue) are still going to work. Certain sectors of the Federal Government are unaffected (air triaffic controllers, food inspectors, uniformed military personnel).
Yes I understand that a prolonged shutdown of a few weeks like last time might start to affect the economy. But this imminent doom and gloom the MSM is spewing is a bit offensive.
Show me some measurable affects, then I'll listen.
one of the biggest problems that I am aware of is that the housing industry will soon have problems. and considering that industry is so pivotal in the health of the u.s. economy, i would say that's significant. because so many home loans are backed by the government, closing dates are being postponed. this could really grind the housing market to a crawl.
that's a main point that i have been reading and hearing from the media.
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Rep. Randy Neugebauer, a Tea Party Republican from Texas, confronted a worker from the National Park Service who was enforcing the closure of the WWII Memorial. Neugebauer is apparently oblivious to the fact that he himself is responsible for the memorial being closed. Christ, what a prick!
In an astounding confrontation that took place yesterday at the World War II Memorial in DC, a Tea Party congressman from Texas appeared to blame the Park Service for denying veterans access to the facility — and then made a Park Ranger apologize for the shutdown.
"How do you look at them and ... deny them access?" Rep. Randy Neugebauer asked the unidentified Ranger in an incredible exchange that was caught on camera by NBC Washington.
In fact, the Park Service has been invoking the First Amendment in order to allow vets into the memorial despite the shutdown making it illegal for the department to do so.
"It's difficult," the Ranger replied. "Well, it should be difficult," scorned the congressman. "It is difficult," the Ranger repeated. "I'm sorry, sir."
"The Park Service should be ashamed of themselves," said Neugebauer. "I'm not ashamed," the Ranger retorted.
"You should be," sneered Neugebauer.
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I happened to accidentlly switch to Sun News. In the twenty seconds or so I saw Levant had some "expert" on blaming the shutdown on Obama, saying it was a legitimate tactic because Obama was acting like a dictator. I switched when Levant started chiming in. The Tea Party has cheerleaders North of the border too. Made me ill.
Rep. Randy Neugebauer, a Tea Party Republican from Texas, confronted a worker from the National Park Service who was enforcing the closure of the WWII Memorial. Neugebauer is apparently oblivious to the fact that he himself is responsible for the memorial being closed. Christ, what a prick!
I happened to accidentlly switch to Sun News. In the twenty seconds or so I saw Levant had some "expert" on blaming the shutdown on Obama, saying it was a legitimate tactic because Obama was acting like a dictator. I switched when Levant started chiming in. The Tea Party has cheerleaders North of the border too. Made me ill.
i'm pretty sure Levant, would fellate Rush Limbaugh, given the opportunity.
Yes, yes, the circus sideshow is still a sideshow.
Let's get back to talking about substantive things.
Quote:
So, by one close observer's count, less than 10 percent of the House of Representatives is preventing the government from opening unless the White House defunds its signature legislation. Not a 51-percent majority. Not a 41-percent "filibuster majority." A 10-percent "bully majority" that has prevailed upon another 10 to 15 percent of the House. Meanwhile the shutdown is already endangering assistance to low-income families, preventing cancer patients from participating in NIH clinics, and shutting down Head Start programs.
Democracy is messy, but some aspects are straightforward. For example, to pass a law (like health-care reform) you need a majority. To get a majority, you win an election. Divided government usefully prevents a slim majority in one part of government from running roughshod over a large minority. But nowhere, to my knowledge, is there a theory of democracy defending the idea that minorities should have or expect the power to pass laws over majorities or that their efforts to do so should suspend government indefinitely.
Martin Wolf asks if the U.S. is a functioning democracy. As an optimist in pessimistic times, I would answer: Check back later.
Using the figure of 800,000 furloughed workers, the Federal government had to spend $5,576,000 to notify said workers of the furloughs. What a waste!
Nice little piece of revenue for the post office though.
__________________ I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love." - John Steinbeck
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In theory the GOP (tea party) is forcing a shut down of the government to force concessions on debt out of the government, but it's looking more and more like the GOP is doing it just hurt Obama, the government and the economy as a run up to the mid term elections. If you are confused as to what the GOP actually wants you aren't alone, it seems like the GOP doesn't even know what it wants.
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“We’re not going to be disrespected. We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is.” - Congressman Stutzman
