[Signing] Kessel to sign contract extension with Leafs ($8Mil AAV, 8 years)

[strombad]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I stated Phaneuf wouldn't take any paycut on the open market. you somehow think he'll settle for much less as a UFA.

And you keep bringing up Ribeiro. Giroux just got 8.4 million. Semin got 7.5 million. Nash gets over 8.

I like Ribeiro but he's a lot older and hasn't put up the same points the last couple of years as Kessel.

Interesting change of history, but you said Phaneuf would be looking at a 1.5-2 million dollar raise as a UFA, and that 6.5 was a "hometown discount". I stated that he didn't deserve more than 5.5-6, but would probably see 6.5 as a UFA.

Again, you equate "much less" to about 500k, the same number you referred to as being a "massive pay cut".

The different between Giroux/Nash and Kessel is that they bring other intangibles to the game. Kessel is comparable to Semin, true, but Id argue that Semin is overpaid, so what's your point?

And over the last 3 years, Ribeiro and Kessel are separated by 15 points. That's hardly a vast difference.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Voodooman

Huge money for the anti (in his prime) Iggy. Kessel starts like a house on fire, has 20 goals by November 15, and then ends up with 6 over the last 25 games of the season. If Toronto had managed to make the playoffs on a more consistent basis, he could well be challenging Joe Thornton for the title of "Biggest Disappearing Act".

It's a contract that looks good on the Leafs, but I'd be livid if my team signed him for that kind of money. He just seems to be one of those guys who can produce when things are going right and loosey goosey, but when the chips are down, and the game is on the line, I wouldn't expect him to lead the team to the promised land.

Wrote that before you saw my post I guess. How is 13 goals, 21 points in 22 playoff games a disappearing act?

Honestly, a lot of you guys just spew the crap you hear. Kessel is underrated.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by strombad

Interesting change of history, but you said Phaneuf would be looking at a 1.5-2 million dollar raise as a UFA, and that 6.5 was a "hometown discount". I stated that he didn't deserve more than 5.5-6, but would probably see 6.5 as a UFA.

Again, you equate "much less" to about 500k, the same number you referred to as being a "massive pay cut".

The different between Giroux/Nash and Kessel is that they bring other intangibles to the game. Kessel is comparable to Semin, true, but Id argue that Semin is overpaid, so what's your point?

And over the last 3 years, Ribeiro and Kessel are separated by 15 points. That's hardly a vast difference.

I said he's get 8-8.5 million? Please show me where.

And you'll recall, I made it clear I meant his cap hit of 6.5 million and 5 million would be a huge paycut for him. A top UFA isn't taking a 1.5 million per paycut. No chance.

And Nash brings no intangibles. He's been a big playoff zero. His defense has always been terribly overrated.

[Buck Murdock]

Phaneuf would be in line for Bouwmeester money imho.

[The Fonz]

I'd be fine with the Flames signing Kessel to 8m AAV, if it were 5 years.

Anything more than 5 makes me really uncomfortable.

[Murph]

Originally Posted by strombad

I'd hardly say that shooting from the circle on the left side repeatedly makes you "dynamic", but the guy can put up points.

Considering he doesn't have many more points than Mike Ribeiro over the last three years, I think 8 would be grossly over the top.
He'd be good at 6.5-7.

Thing is, he's very much like a Ribeiro, he simply gets overrated playing in Toronto. He's good offensively, top 20 guy in the league, but he brings very little else to his game. He doesn't play hard like a Perry or a Getzlaf, he's not a show stopper like a Malkin or a Kane, he just goes around and puts up dependable points. Not a bad guy by any means, just a little one note, and not the greatest one note at that.

You don't watch many Leafs games do you...

And here's a question for you. How much would you pay for Patrick Kane when his current deal is up? I.e. A smaller, offensive first player, who has ACTUAL off ice character issues. Oh yeah, and he has fewer points than Kessel over the last three seasons._

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Murph

You don't watch many Leafs games do you...

And here's a question for you. How much would you pay for Patrick Kane when his current deal is up? I.e. A smaller, offensive first player, who has ACTUAL off ice character issues. Oh yeah, and he has fewer points than Kessel over the last three seasons._

Yup.

Also, he doesn't get the joy of playing with Tyler Bozak.

[Poe969]

ya, brain fart about the contract and years. Kessel is worth it, I hate the leafs and if he's there long term I hate him now too but I think if he was a UFA we would probably offer him a contract. Great comparison to Kane, Kane has an all star team to play on and Kessl is on the leafs.

It's a big contract, it's a long contract and it might come back to bite them in the butt. It may also pay off for the length of the deal.

[Galakanokis]

stay far away from Kessel. You do not win being built around a high priced, one dimensional winger. Look at how well it turned out for the Wild with Gaborik, CLB and NYR with Nash. Not sure how much these guys elevate the games of the others around them. Sutter had it right when he said you focus your big money down the middle, top center man, D man and a goalie. Kessel is a top line winger no doubt but big long term money just sounds bad to me for him.

Does anybody actually still care about Phaneuf? He's gone and I'm glad. Some other team can worry about the guy that peaked in his second or third season.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

For all the talk of him being soft, Kessel's been a great playoff performer (Ribeiro certainly has not).

Kessel in Playoffs:


22 13 8 21 +11

Why is Rick Nash making over 8 million a year?

Rick Nash is one of the most overrated players in the league which kind of sums up why some of us feel this is an overpayment.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

stay far away from Kessel. You do not win being built around a high priced, one dimensional winger. Look at how well it turned out for the hawks and Kane.

fyp

You can't say that skilled one dimensional players aren't needed. They are ONE piece of a team, as soon as they get him under contract they can then get the other pieces but to say not to get him is just foolish.

[The Fonz]

Average of last 2 seasons:

36G 49A 85PTS

And hasn't missed a game since 2010.

At the age of 26 (tomorrow), I don't feel like the Leafs overpaid for him. Term? Ya... It's a couple years too long

[CaptainCrunch]

Don't think the term is that great, The dollar mark is based on market. Does he stay motivated now that his career is confirmed?

I still don't think that the Leaf's are going to make the playoffs this year, especially with the cap situation forcing them to play with little depth. I think last years shortened season disguised a lot of weaknesses. But an 82 game season is a different story.

[Vinny01]

Good deal for both. Kessel might be a bit overpaid but the leafs had to keep him and he has been a lethal scorer in his career. They gave up a ton to get him so it is important they keep him long term (considering how well he has played)

[Poe969]

I think the leafs are a bubble team this year. I think since this coming draft any team can get the #1 pick, we should do whatever we can to help them as long as we get that pick. I think they see this as a window for the team so they'll give up a lot for instant help.

I think we need to take advantage of the leafs. I think Burke is going to deal with them but only if it helps us more and screws them long term

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by strombad

Interesting change of history, but you said Phaneuf would be looking at a 1.5-2 million dollar raise as a UFA, and that 6.5 was a "hometown discount". I stated that he didn't deserve more than 5.5-6, but would probably see 6.5 as a UFA.

Again, you equate "much less" to about 500k, the same number you referred to as being a "massive pay cut".

The different between Giroux/Nash and Kessel is that they bring other intangibles to the game. Kessel is comparable to Semin, true, but Id argue that Semin is overpaid, so what's your point?

And over the last 3 years, Ribeiro and Kessel are separated by 15 points. That's hardly a vast difference.

Riberio and Tavares are only separated by 12 points so by your logic Riberio = Tavares.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I said he's get 8-8.5 million? Please show me where.

And you'll recall, I made it clear I meant his cap hit of 6.5 million and 5 million would be a huge paycut for him. A top UFA isn't taking a 1.5 million per paycut. No chance.

And Nash brings no intangibles. He's been a big playoff zero. His defense has always been terribly overrated.

My bad, meant 1-1.5 million, as you said multiple times he is essentially guaranteed over 7 as a UFA. Sorry!

Originally Posted by Murph

You don't watch many Leafs games do you...

And here's a question for you. How much would you pay for Patrick Kane when his current deal is up? I.e. A smaller, offensive first player, who has ACTUAL off ice character issues. Oh yeah, and he has fewer points than Kessel over the last three seasons._

I pay him 7-7.5

The difference between their point totals over the past 3 years is 4, and if you don't put on your leaf blinders you can see that if you factor in the last 4 years instead of the last 3?
Well, Kane then has 29 more points than Kessel.

Over their NHL careers?
Kessel - 504 GP/379 points
Kane - 446 GP/424 points

Kane is better, by leaps and bounds. He's been a big contributor to 2 cup winning teams, and is actually a dynamic player who can create from every area of the offensive zone.

Again, Kessel is GOOD. But he's not that good.

[Jason14h]

Some of you will be very angry in 2 years when the Flames are paying a 80 pt UFA 8 million a year who isn't as good as Kessel!

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Some of you will be very angry in 2 years when the Flames are paying a 80 pt UFA 8 million a year who isn't as good as Kessel!

How about in 7 yrs when the Leaf's are paying Kessel 8 mill per?

[Voodooman]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Wrote that before you saw my post I guess. How is 13 goals, 21 points in 22 playoff games a disappearing act?

Honestly, a lot of you guys just spew the crap you hear. Kessel is underrated.

Nope. I actually take the time to think about what I'm going to say, and how it's relevant to the current situation. If you had done so, you would note that 15 of those 22 playoff games you are hanging your hat on were over 5 years ago, when he was still with the Bruins.

Kessel just doesn't have the reputation as a game changer and a leader. When it's crunch time, he's not the guy you can count on. Look at all those trips to Boston, the heat was turned up, and he was invisible. And the 2010 Olympics, 2 points in 6 games.

I'm not saying that he's awful, but $8 million for 8 years suggests an elite level player. Kessel seems more along the lines of a Tavares, Marleau or Towes. A great player, salary in the lines of $6-6.5 million/year. But he's just not in the same league as a Stamkos, Perry or Getzlaf.

I will say that the talk that the Bruins absolutely "won" the Kessel trade is now dead. The Raycroft/Rask trade has far eclipsed that in terms of Toronto ineptitude.