BS.
I see a ton of fresh grads making excellent money right out of University. A big part of the problem is, the current crop of kids, want a $500k home, a $50k BMW, and a vacation cottage before 30. And expect the income to support that.
You are a car salesman, and most of the fresh grads you see are buying cars? I'm shocked.
And while I do know lots of young people 25-30 who are looking to buy average homes (what a disgrace to mankind) I don't know anyone who I graduated with (HS, undergrad or grad school) who is looking to buy a vacation cottage.
(EDIT : is $500k the avg for a new home? I was once told it was comparable to the San Jose area, where $650k is the avg for a 1400 sq ft townhome in a district that see's a shooting less than once a month)
__________________
"With a coach and a player, sometimes there's just so much respect there that it's boils over"
-Taylor Hall
The entitlement issue is not a myth IMO. And a huge reason a lot of these old crodgers are being kept around, is because the work ethic is totally different. I work with a guy who is 66 years old, that can twice as much done in a day and at a higher level of accuracy and quality, than someone half his age, myself included. He comes to work, to work. Not youtube, or twit, or facebook.... work. How valuable do you think a guy like that is to a company?
Now get the hell off my lawn.
I can't believe no honorable mention of CP, in that rant.
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We have a guy at our work who is I think 69 or 70. About 5 years ago he was diagnosed with cancer, and was gone for about 2 years in treatment. Now he has to use a cane to get around and is pretty slow going up and down stairs etc. Apparently the guy is far from needing any money, and his wife also had cancer not long. Most of us wonder wtf he is still here taking away a job from a younger person who needs the money.
ABout a week ago I met him in the coffee room, and he says, "boy, it's such a nice day out, why are we stuck here at work". I wanted to ask him the exact same question when, he has money, but doesn't have a lot of time. Why aren't you enjoying the last bit of your life, ffs.
I also think , that once people retire, those without hobbies, and things to do, seem to age alot quicker and the life span is cut that much shorter. I'm thinking that is why this guy doesn't want to quit working as that will hasten the end for him.
My dad is terrified of that exact thing. With his experience, and his specialty, companies have been throwing fistfuls of money at him for the last 15 years, as nobody has his knowledge or experience. So he has really not taken a job from anyone per se, as he isn't replaceable. But he is now 72 and he genuinely thinks enough is enough and is retiring in October. Plus he is getting a little forgetful. He understands that it is time to move on. But he thinks he is going to rot away and die right after he retires.
You are a car salesman, and most of the fresh grads you see are buying cars? I'm shocked.
And while I do know lots of young people 25-30 who are looking to buy average homes (what a disgrace to mankind) I don't know anyone who I graduated with (HS, undergrad or grad school) who is looking to buy a vacation cottage.
(EDIT : is $500k the avg for a new home? I was once told it was comparable to the San Jose area, where $650k is the avg for a 1400 sq ft townhome in a district that see's a shooting less than once a month)
I work in finance and process most of the credit applications that come through here. Not a lot of grads are buying base model or used cars.
A big part of the problem is, the current crop of kids, want a $500k home, a $50k BMW, and a vacation cottage before 30. And expect the income to support that.
Citation needed.
I don't know any kids who have such unrealistic expectations, except for the desire to own a home (keep in mind that a typical suburban "starter home" in Calgary costs $400k or more these days).
Quote:
My dad was a draftsman making about $850/mth, out of school in the late 60's, which was good entry level money then
No kidding that was good entry level money back then! Adjusted for inflation, $850/month in 1967 dollars equates to an annual income of ~$69,000 in 2013 dollars. I'm sure most of today's crop of recent post-secondary graduates would be lining up for a job that offered that level of compensation.
Depends what kind of home you are looking for.
Could you put a 15K down payment on a kind of crappy 150K condo in NE for example? Could you borrow around 15K from anyone?
My cousin (24) just bought a condo in Harvest Hills for 210K. I lent her 10K. She will pay me back $200/month for 50 months, no interest.
Build your asset for 5-8 years then upgrade to something 300K etc...
Your first house shouldn't be your last.
Edit: pylon sort of beat me to it.
Sure I could, but who wants to live in a crappy condo in Harvest Hills for 5-8 years?
I guess that falls in line with the entitlement portion of the article, and maybe that's acurate, but the sacrifice that Pylon mentioned doesn't seem worth it.
I work in finance and process most of the credit applications that come through here. Not a lot of grads are buying base model or used cars.
Don't you work for some elite car dealership? (BMW?)
Really... if you are in a BMW dealership, someone is buying your car for the vanity... so why buy used?
(If I'm wrong and you work for a Honda or Toyota dealership, ignore this post and I'll see you if I move back to Calgary and I'm looking for a new car... I drive a Honda Civic and I want to upgrade to a Honda Fit... think big!)
__________________
"With a coach and a player, sometimes there's just so much respect there that it's boils over"
-Taylor Hall
My point is, you can't say "everyone i see is xxx" because it depends on what crowds you see and meet. I would argue the opposite because my peers aren't about vanity, so besides 1 friend who has a BMW the next most elite cars my friends have is a Subaru Outback (3x), then a Toyota Camry (2x), a Subaru Foraster (1x) then a whole bunch of Corolla's and Civic's. I guess one of my friends has a Toyota Tacoma, but he's 38 so not sure where he fits. All make the 6 figure salaries, less than 10% own a home (most of them have <$700 a month rent) and none of them have this vacation cottage, never even knew young people bought those things.
__________________
"With a coach and a player, sometimes there's just so much respect there that it's boils over"
-Taylor Hall
I see a ton of fresh grads making excellent money right out of University. A big part of the problem is, the current crop of kids, want a $500k home, a $50k BMW, and a vacation cottage before 30. And expect the income to support that.
A 500k home is now a very basic home in a not so great neighbourhood. So yes, a lot of people want to at least have mortgaged a basic home before 30. Other than that, I totally disagree with you.
I don't know anybody under 30 who has the things you're talking about, who has earned them themselves.
The idea that this is the first generation that wants a fast car is also ridiculous. You're saying that up until now people below 30 weren't buying anything but the very basic of cars...
My mom retired at 63 because some young uppity "bitch" (her words, not mine...which is funny coming from an old Chinese lady lol) moved into management and tried to boss her around.
Now she golfs 3-4 a week in the summers and travels the world with all her retired friends in winter. Definitely no rotting away there. Probably helps that she has a couple kids to cover some of her travel costs heh.
I have yet to meet anyone in my age group who "expects" to own any of those things any time soon. Sure they might want it and have materialistic goals but none of them "expect" it or are surprised that they don't have them yet. Maybe they did as a kid but I think pretty much everyone snaps out of it out of high school.
The only thing I'd whine about is home and rent prices but that's really a Calgary thing. Rent in particular is absolutely ridiculous and handicaps most new grads from moving out and saving for a down payment. Hopefully it corrects itself soon. Only a few years ago, some one could move into a small condo or basement suite, grind it out and save for a downpayment. Now even basement suites are renting out for $1000 a month. Considering the average starting salary for new grads is between $2600-4000 a month, you're pretty screwed if you're in the lower end of that range, which most are.
I am only 39, and even the guys in their 20's that work with me, are shocked, I will put in 10-15 hours of overtime a week and come in on Sunday when I have to, if I have to just to get the job done. And I am not even technically paid for it the way my pay is structured. But that is why, I got to where I did. I am a company man, as are the two other guys in my department, who are all a little older. People bounce around now, and have next to no dedication to their employers. It is hard enough to get the current kids coming through ranks to show up for their shift a half an hour early for a meeting for gods sake. When in reality, you should be half an hour early for that meeting. And these are people I only have a 10-15 year gap on.
I am not saying this applies to everyone, as there a few guys I see, that are actually getting the picture now. But as a whole, it is an entirely different attitude now. Myself, I am definitely on the unhealthy side of the fence. I am a classic workaholic, who doesn't know when to just put the pen down a shut the computer off some days. But on the flip side, I see way too much 'bare minimum' being put out as well. Once these gen Y'ers understand that it is earned, not handed out. And once they learn they aren't "Special little babies that deserve everything" like their mommy and daddy told them, then maybe they will start pushing out some of the old guys takin' their jerbs.
Now get the hell off my lawn.
I think you'll see that once these 20 something guys reach your age and career position they will probably end up taking on the work ethic you have out of necessity. I hope.
One thing I've noticed is that the 20-somethings I work with are happy to go home at 430 or 5, and come to expect it. When they get to project management positions, it hits them like a freight train that the time commitment and responsibility is a consistent endurance battle.
A good handful of 20-somethings I work with too will prefer to "top out" at a senior level position but not as high as a PM or Director. They're happy to have just enough responsibility but without the time commitments and workplace pressures that come with the territory.
It's either genius or lazy, depending how you look at it.
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I see a ton of fresh grads making excellent money right out of University. A big part of the problem is, the current crop of kids, want a $500k home, a $50k BMW, and a vacation cottage before 30. And expect the income to support that.
My dad was a draftsman making about $850/mth, out of school in the late 60's, which was good entry level money then, and my folks scraped together every penny they could, drove a $150 1959 Beetle for 2 years, lived in a basement suite where my dad did building maintenance for $50/mth, and considered spam good cuts of meat for cripes sake, so they could scratch together a $5000 down payment, for a $20,000 home in Canyon Meadows. That sacrifice no longer exists. People just ask mommy and daddy for their down payment now. Even I am guilty of that one myself on my first home.
People now want everything NOW, and that is the problem. That expectation leads to expecting 6 figures out of school. A ton of the jobs are going over seas and to South America now at half the rate, because everyone feels entitled to a CEO salary, without having to work their way through the ranks.
Lol. This post is basically exactly why Gen Y's absolutely HATE Boomers. So ignorant.
Like MarchHare said, these old timers don't even know their salary in the old days is equivalent to a starting salary out of high school (ie. no college debt, starting earnings 4 years earlier etc.) of 70k/year.
Then they complain about how hard they had it back then to save up for a $120,000 house. Crazy.
Last edited by Regorium; 09-18-2013 at 11:27 AM.
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I don't get why all the Gen Y'ers are getting butt hurt about the article? It's just a fun blog post that I thought was a pretty accurate description of us. If I had a dime for everybody I knew that is self employed working a job they "love" barely making enough to pay rent I could probably buy one of them a sandwich.
I've found great happiness lately in accepting that I'm just another dude with a job to pay the bills. How blissfully apathetic is that!?
The only thing I'd whine about is home and rent prices but that's really a Calgary thing. Rent in particular is absolutely ridiculous and handicaps most new grads from moving out and saving for a down payment. Hopefully it corrects itself soon. Only a few years ago, some one could move into a small condo or basement suite, grind it out and save for a downpayment. Now even basement suites are renting out for $1000 a month. Considering the average starting salary for new grads is between $2600-4000 a month, you're pretty screwed if you're in the lower end of that range, which most are.
I don't get why all the Gen Y'ers are getting butt hurt about the article? It's just a fun blog post that I thought was a pretty accurate description of us. If I had a dime for everybody I knew that is self employed working a job they "love" barely making enough to pay rent I could probably buy one of them a sandwich.
I've found great happiness lately in accepting that I'm just another dude with a job to pay the bills. How blissfully apathetic is that!?
Not sure what you are talkign about Kev? The replies in this thread really have nothing to do with the article. The article is summarized by this:
Quote:
Cal Newport points out that "follow your passion" is a catchphrase that has only gotten going in the last 20 years, according to Google's Ngram viewer, a tool that shows how prominently a given phrase appears in English print over any period of time. The same Ngram viewer shows that the phrase "a secure career" has gone out of style, just as the phrase "a fulfilling career" has gotten hot.
The critisism in this thread is pylon's assertion that young adults want an average home, car (he see's it all the time cause he works in a car dealership) and the crazy assertion about a vacation cottage which I don't know a single young person that has one.
The article I agree with. The replies in this thread are mostly about making stuff up and certain BB's not knowing what inflation is.
__________________
"With a coach and a player, sometimes there's just so much respect there that it's boils over"
-Taylor Hall
My dad was a draftsman making about $850/mth, out of school in the late 60's, which was good entry level money then, and my folks scraped together every penny they could, drove a $150 1959 Beetle for 2 years, lived in a basement suite where my dad did building maintenance for $50/mth, and considered spam good cuts of meat for cripes sake, so they could scratch together a $5000 down payment, for a $20,000 home in Canyon Meadows. That sacrifice no longer exists. People just ask mommy and daddy for their down payment now. Even I am guilty of that one myself on my first home.
850 per month is $10,200 per year, or 50% of the purchase price of that house in Canyon Meadows. The average house price in Calgary is $453,000. I don't think you're hearing complaints from any Millenials making 225k (or half the cost of a house per year). Mainly because there are very, very few.
I'm a millenial with everything on the "yuppy list" above except the kid, (which is scheduled for 5 months from now) and I absolutely had to work and sacrifice for those things. And that's after I got excellent grades in a competitive post secondary program. If I was starting out as a draftsman now saving a 25% downpayment on the average house might be mathematically impossible in two years.
Hard to save 100k+ in two years if your take home pay doesn't add up to that amount.
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I don't get why all the Gen Y'ers are getting butt hurt about the article? It's just a fun blog post that I thought was a pretty accurate description of us. If I had a dime for everybody I knew that is self employed working a job they "love" barely making enough to pay rent I could probably buy one of them a sandwich.
I've found great happiness lately in accepting that I'm just another dude with a job to pay the bills. How blissfully apathetic is that!?
Except it's not about a funny issue.
People my age are having to forgo things like the opportunity to have children. Their ability to have a career that affords things like basic housing gets pushed further and further back. And we aren't talking about lazy or troubled people. People who've done everything right and gotten specialized skills. Teachers, firemen, etc...who can't find permanent positions.
Baby boomers create a system that destroys people's lives through their own greed and then make light of it. Yeah great.
