Would you strike

[Displaced Flames fan]

I've been in potential strike situations twice, with the same company. The first time I would have went on strike and voted to do so. However, the company bought the vote by offering a 10% bonus to senior workers upon acceptance of the contract. As a result of that situation, I withdrew as a dues paying union member though I was still represented by the union by law. The second time I would have crossed the line and did not agree with the union's stance on issues at all. The vote was close, but that contract was also accepted.

In my current job I am a union member and in the year that I've been there I have seen numerous incidents occur to others that render the union a must in this job. We are, however, prohibited to strike by federal law. Still, the union can protect my job and it does care about every job as opposed to the union at the other company I worked for (Boeing) who at that time was only interested in protecting senior workers.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Jul 23 2005, 10:31 PM
I've been in potential strike situations twice, with the same company. The first time I would have went on strike and voted to do so. However, the company bought the vote by offering a 10% bonus to senior workers upon acceptance of the contract. As a result of that situation, I withdrew as a dues paying union member though I was still represented by the union by law. The second time I would have crossed the line and did not agree with the union's stance on issues at all. The vote was close, but that contract was also accepted.

In my current job I am a union member and in the year that I've been there I have seen numerous incidents occur to others that render the union a must in this job. We are, however, prohibited to strike by federal law. Still, the union can protect my job and it does care about every job as opposed to the union at the other company I worked for (Boeing) who at that time was only interested in protecting senior workers.

I hear you Dis, unions aren't perfect, but like democracy are the best system we got. I was also put in a strange position one time where I went on strike basicly against my union. They had signed a special contract we didn't get to vote on. It was a bad contract [not in line with the other trades] so we had a wildcat strike and had the deal renegotiated. Still, I don't cross picket lines, even to shop. I'm not as bad as my grandfather though who used to check for union labels on his kids clothing. I have a hard time finding any clothing even made in Canada or the U.S.A.

[Stormchaser]

Quote:

Say we get rid of the unions you don't think are meaningful anymore and see how fast the corporations take advantage. Look at the 'Right to Work' states south of the border and notice how much lower their wages are.



I totally agree that unions are needed and are very usefull. Unions should be in place to protect the employees from corporate abuse. The union is there to protect the employee and give them a voice.

from the TWU website.................

We build solid collective agreements that promote fair wages and just and equitable treatment for all.

That just sounds like a load of bullshingard!! In my department, I have been treated pretty fair. If you don't like how much you make then why don't you go find a different job! If the Telephone installers feel that they should be making more money....fine!! Let them go on strike to make a point........there is not reason why I need to!

[duncan]

The key point is, if you scab, would you expect the same raise/improvements that the striker got by walking? If your morals/interests tell you not to strike, the same things should be telling you not to accept the things that they got by walking. I have a few co-workers that objected to striking, I had no problem with that. I did have a problem when upon return, they were asking when the retro-pay (raise) was coming, and one demanded that I fill out a grievance for them. Some people want the protection and benefits without the sacrifice.

[FireFly]

Well, we are getting a raise by not striking... I have no problems with the raise I am getting, and if the union negotiates a bigger one, then fine, they can have it. That said, we have been told that wages aren't the issue in this fight, and the wages laid out in the contract Telus offered are fine. What we're apparently fighting for is 'job security'. However, instead of rewording the contract on the table to their liking, they just send back the same contract that Telus has rejected for four years. That's not bargaining. Not only that, but I cannot support a union that would do this:

Union Sabotage

There have been now 19 incidents of mysteriously cut cables in BC, only one in Alberta close to the border.... At one point, the cables to a hospital were cut. I cannot support a Union who supports it's members in doing this.

[Stormchaser]

Originally posted by duncan@Jul 24 2005, 04:09 AM
The key point is, if you scab, would you expect the same raise/improvements that the striker got by walking? If your morals/interests tell you not to strike, the same things should be telling you not to accept the things that they got by walking. I have a few co-workers that objected to striking, I had no problem with that. I did have a problem when upon return, they were asking when the retro-pay (raise) was coming, and one demanded that I fill out a grievance for them. Some people want the protection and benefits without the sacrifice.

Thats a good question. As far as I know the payroll dept would automatically adjust each individual salary or / hour rate automatically. I guess I would be willing to stick by my guns and work at the rate at which the Telus agreement (not the TWU agreement) was to be at if I was given the choice. It makes sense what you are saying, but I don't know if you would have a choice or not to accept the new agreement. (in my department anyways) crossong the picket line already means that I am working under the agreement the Telus wants the TWU to accept. Someone please fill me in if I am wrong on that one. Good point though.

[duncan]

If you are given no choice, fine. You work at that rate, but by moral, I would expect that the person request their dues be donated to charity, and not expect/accept any assistance from the union.

I also don't support any union that breaks any laws, or puts any innnocent person at risk. Very few unions would, since any support from that union for a person breaking the law, can set the leaders of that union in legal jeopardy. I strongly discouraged picketting homes or slandering scabs in the public, 1. because it is classless and immoral, and 2. I would never want a co-worker to put their lives in jeopardy financially or legally, there are better ways to get your message heard.

[FireFly]

Originally posted by stormchaser+Jul 24 2005, 01:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (stormchaser @ Jul 24 2005, 01:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-duncan@Jul 24 2005, 04:09 AM
The key point is, if you scab, would you expect the same raise/improvements that the striker got by walking? If your morals/interests tell you not to strike, the same things should be telling you not to accept the things that they got by walking. I have a few co-workers that objected to striking, I had no problem with that. I did have a problem when upon return, they were asking when the retro-pay (raise) was coming, and one demanded that I fill out a grievance for them. Some people want the protection and benefits without the sacrifice.

Thats a good question. As far as I know the payroll dept would automatically adjust each individual salary or / hour rate automatically. I guess I would be willing to stick by my guns and work at the rate at which the Telus agreement (not the TWU agreement) was to be at if I was given the choice. It makes sense what you are saying, but I don't know if you would have a choice or not to accept the new agreement. (in my department anyways) crossong the picket line already means that I am working under the agreement the Telus wants the TWU to accept. Someone please fill me in if I am wrong on that one. Good point though. [/b][/quote]
You're right. You're working under the agreement Telus wants us to accept. However, if the union negotiates a new agreement, you would have to sign that one, and work under it's terms. However, as a picket line crosser, you are now, 'Not in good standing' which means that when an agreement is reached and Telus starts taking union dues off cheques again, you'll be paying the union. However, you won't receive any rights the union provides, like being at greivance hearings and whatnot. Way I look at it is this: If you do your job, you won't need them for anything anyways.

[duncan]

Originally posted by FireFly@Jul 24 2005, 09:40 PM
However, you won't receive any rights the union provides, like being at greivance hearings and whatnot. Way I look at it is this: If you do your job, you won't need them for anything anyways.

That's rich, mangement tends to be scared of guys that know the system, and know how to protect themselves. They take advantage of those that are unprotected and/or uneducated to their rights.
As I said, the conscious objector was quick to need assistance, he earned a merit increase, but was told he wasn't entitled to it, since he had been 'red-flagged' as being in the wrong pay category. He informed his manager of the mistake, but the manager sloughed him off, deciding there was no need to take him serious. This guy had no sick time, no discipline record, no issues period. However, Management knew that he was not a dues paying member. I couldn't see him get screwed over, so I helped him show that they had 'flagged' the wrong guy, and he managed to get his money after a year of grievances.
Another worker is suspended (8 weeks) because an inmate made a false allegation against him -video cleared him- but the Superintendant wanted to send a message to staff that all allegations would be taken serious. The police investigated him and cleared him, the the Investigative Unit cleared him, but the Superintendant decided that her managers needed to investigate it as well. The guy sits at home, his only income coming from the union hardship fund, while the security manager conducts a third investigation. This staff member has no history of discipline.

[moon]

I think that a lot of the corporations will screw over employees fearmongering is a little excessive here.

Will/do some companies take advantage of employees? Of course. But I think that there are and would be a lot more that realise it is better business practice to treat employees fairly and give them the best possible benefits in order to attract the best employees.

[FireFly]

Thought this was amusing, and thought I'd share.... Sorry it's long, but it's worth it.

FYI - this is a letter written to the TWU over an incident that happened on the weekend….


"On Saturday Aug 22nd, I partook in an organized street hockey tournament in downtown Calgary, specifically on McLeod Trail. I drove as close as I could to the event, then needed to find parking. As it happened, I pulled into an underground lot, entitled "Ideal Parking". For reasons unbenounced to me, I was met by a small, unhappy mob of people with signs around their necks which read they were locked out of Telus. These people proceeded to call me a scab, told me how ashamed I should be for what I'm doing, told me to smile because I was on camera, took my picture, and walked in front of my vehicle as I pulled in.

I'm sorry...do I know you people?

Well now, since your group of Muppets have decided to voice their obvious displeasure towards the general public, I will now share with you the general public's opinion of you and your lackeys. Understanding full well that nobody on the picket line can comprehend words containing 2 or more syllables, I'll do my best to dumb down the letter so it can be read and enjoyed by everyone on the picket line. Feel free to help your members with the tougher words like "it" and "the".

Let me start with the lady who came up to me while I was pulling into the underground lot. I would first like to applaud at how she managed to stay up on her hind legs for so long. Having said that, the accolades end there. With her stout unhappy persona, combined with her dirty laundered wardrobe and whittled cabbagey hands holding (gasp!) a cigarette, I found her to be the ideal representation of your group. I'm wondering if perhaps you might want to make up tiny 'anti-Telus' signs to hang around the necks of all the flies that swarmed her wherever she walked. There's strength in numbers, you know. Although she had no idea who I was, or why I was parking in a public parkade, she began mumbling something about my being a scab and being ashamed. Unfortunately I didn't fully catch what she said, as I was preoccupied by humming the HMS Pinafore in my head. I’m sorry I could not multi-task and absorb both, but after a brief inner debate, humming the score was clearly deemed of more importance.

Next up was the lady taking my picture. Why are you taking my picture? Who are you, and why do you want me in your family photo album? No matter what you say, nobody you show this to is going to believe I'm related to you. Proof is in the photo. You ma'am, have a moustache. I do not. Aside from that... although this woman was too cowardly to actually come near my vehicle for the photo, perhaps she could have warned me first, so that I may have had time to extend my middle finger to express my appreciation of her antics on invading my privacy. I suppose the big question here though, is: why would someone on your picket line, making what… $5 a paycheck, waste their two weeks income all on rolls of film? Why wouldn’t that money be spent towards Ichiban soup, or better yet, a bar of soap? I suppose having a financial advisor work with the picketers is not one of the benefits of being out there, hey?

Speaking of benefits, I’m assuming one of the clear cut benefits of being on the picket line is having the ability to sit your fat ass down for hours on end without budging or doing a damned thing. Come to think of it, put the internet in front of one of those people on the steps, and they’re all but doing the same amount of work there as they would be if they were inside the building. This can be best backed by the lifeless statue who was sitting on the bus bench as I walked to my hockey game in the morning. About 3 hours later when I returned, there he was in the exact same position, as though someone paused him like a bathroom break in a movie, then forgot to push play upon returning.

Doubtful as I am you are still reading this, as I’m certain there are many more strangers across BC and Alberta that you probably feel the need to bother, ensuring you cement your legacy as the single biggest embarrassment this side of forgetting to wear pants in public, I feel I must continue, if not for my own satisfaction.

As though taking photographs of complete strangers isn’t bad enough, some ignoramus out there was actually filming me as I drove into the parkade. Filming me?!? What the hell must HER weekend parties be like? “Hey everyone, come to my house and we’ll watch 8 hours of useless footage of cars we don’t know driving into a parkade. No need to bring snacks, there’s plenty of Itchiban for everyone.” Rather than filming strangers park cars, perhaps this lady should point her camera towards the doors of the Telus building. She could then bring the film home, analyze the tape, and perhaps solve the mystery of how, if she’s “locked out”, so many people seem to be getting into the building to work? (hint: try ‘pulling’ the door rather than ‘pushing’ next time)

I suppose this just leaves those good looking signs around your necks. To begin with, I’m at a loss for words as to why, with your dull, uneducated, public disturbing group of peons you have out there, you wouldn’t opt to write on the signs your SUPPORT for Telus. Think about it. Here I am, “Joe Public”, trying to park in some random lot on a Saturday morning. Out of the blue, I’m bothered by someone who by all rights, should be looking for the Drop-In centre. Amidst their incoherent babbling and cigarette puffing, I glance down to see what is on the sign of this idiot who won’t shut up. At this point, wouldn’t you want me to believe that this jack-in-the-box in front of me is annoyingly representing your arch rival? Makes sense to me. However, since this creative master plan was in fact ‘not’ the case, we are all fully aware that this ‘idiot circus pet’ with a cardboard flea collar around her neck is in fact, your member. I’ve already expressed the obvious downfall of your first sign, reading you’re locked out. I’ve personally seen the doors of Telus wide open, with people walking in and out. (In fact, I was considering filming strangers walking in and out of the building for 8 hours, just in case the car-park filming lady wanted to trade movies for the weekend or something) I’ve read that BC has in fact closed their doors to your members. Perhaps if you wish to pester the public with those signs, you can do so in BC, where union striking comes around as often as Tuesdays. But how stupid do you look in Calgary, standing there with a cardboard sign around your neck saying the doors are locked, while people behind you are entering the damned building?

The other notable sign I saw had some garble on it regarding how the Delta Hotel is supporting Telus. While structurally I suppose it IS somewhat supporting Telus, what with that giant plus 15 joining the two buildings and perhaps in some small way, acting as a support beam of sorts, I do not understand why you feel the need to advertise to people that you don’t have the support of surrounding businesses. How does that help your case? I do not know if I interpreted that sign poorly, but rest assured, if I was scalded for parking my truck, the last thing I’m going to do is approach one of these walking obtuse atrocities for clarification. I mean, the smell of one those hobos alone would keep me away, but the fowl stench of their attitude towards another human being far outweighs even that.

In closing, I would like to express my inner satisfaction for having taken a few moments out of my life to inform you all of what you already know: you’re a hack bunch of high school drop outs who obviously had a distant relative in AGT slip a fin to someone to grant you a job. At no point in your lives do you obviously think for yourselves, rather, you depend on the collectively shared 1 pea-sized brain circulating in your union, which was found in a jar with a lemon inside. I believe I stopped playing “Simon Says” when I was in grade 2. But as we already ascertained, the majority of your population would be lucky to have achieved such levels of education. You are all unbelievably fortunate to have wedged your lazy asses into a company that is already overpaying you to take 200 smoke breaks a day, combined with passing along your favorite chain letter jokes to the rest of your online-date-searching friends. Instead of clinging on to this job tighter than your 4 week old unchanged undergarments, you are wasting your time outside, allowing a large corporation to realize just how un-required your services truly are. And in the meantime, you’re spending your long arduous days yelling at complete strangers like myself, ensuring no matter where you turn, you’ll have no future. Now THAT’S friendly.

I would like to finish by saying that if one of your idiot savvy representatives chooses to bother me again, I will once again send a letter your way, only next time, I’ll be rude.

James"


Anyone know James? I'd like to applaud him personally.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

If I were James I would have "waved" my hockey stick at them menacingly... perhaps that would get the message across that it's someone who doesn't give a fata about their cause.

Hilarious letter, where's it posted?

[FireFly]

Don't know that it's posted anywhere... the TWU isn't big on posting things like this on their website... It was sent to the TWU, and sent on to those inside by someone outside who's not pickiting, but taking a vacation before coming back to work. It's now making the rounds inside the buildings, has been sent to Edmonton as well. The people inside are having a great laugh over it!

[Resolute 14]

It seems to be going around as an email chain. I've seen this posted at skyscraperpage as well.

Very funny, and very accurate.

[Clarkey]

That's hilarious, thanks for putting that up here!

[RougeUnderoos]

Brilliant letter. A writer that wasn't so bold probably would have left out all the spelling errors, poor grammar and playground hygiene jokes when insulting the intelligence of other people.

"For reasons unbenounced to me..."?

Wow, that's good stuff.

I don't agree with the Telus union on this one, but that is a pretty effing stupid "letter".

Firefly, you do know he's referring to you and all Telus employees as fat, lazy, uneducated peons, don't you?

[Tower]

Originally posted by Bertuzzied+Jul 21 2005, 03:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bertuzzied @ Jul 21 2005, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

yeeesh...stress leave. Ok Ill bite...please tell us what constitutes stress leave?

You know if you have to go on stress leave for your job, you SHOULDN"T work there! how can it get any better once you come back?

I hate Unions!!! Protect the lazy and the old fogies! [/b][/quote]
Bud, stress leaves are actually a good thing. The problem isn't unions - it's the fact that too many people abuse them. And yes I've taken one before, and yes I kick ass at work now.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally posted by Clarkey@Jul 21 2005, 09:58 PM
Maybe 100 people lost their jobs because they tried to collude to fata over Walmart.

I hate Walmart but I applauded what they did in Quebec.

Wanting health coverage is fataing them over?

I'm part of a union and I agree with a lot of points made in this thread. I'm mid-level management now in the government (used to be a programmer, now I'm a project leader, but all us computer folk are in the same union). And yes, time and again, I've been screwed over by my own union. The people that I pay money to every month do whatever they can to make my job hell. I have workers that don't show up, do crap work, take smoke breaks every half hour.... and it's infectious. You have one person who is breaking all the rules and everyone else starts to wonder why they have to do so much work while this guy is in his office playing freecell all day.... But if you try to take action against the employee, he calls in his union rep and then it's your ass on the line.

So why not leave? Why not go somewhere where the good people are kept and the bad people fired? Because I've got good benefits, a decent wage and I've got job security. I've worked in the private sector as well and while, yes, sometimes the poor workers got fired, but more likely I saw good people with different views from management get fired. And the "yes-men" get promoted. Promotions aren't about what you know, it was all about who you knew. One ex-OHL player agreed to play for the company hockey team in exchange for a promotion, even though I could think of a dozen people more qualified.

To those that say that unions have no role in modern society, I think you are wrong. Very wrong. Just that they don't play it most of the time. They are more interested in protecting the rights of the inept and lazy than improving the plight of the consciencious worker.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

As for the question about crossing a picket line, like others have said, it would depend on whether I agreed with the union position or not. If I thought they were being stupid and not accepting a fair offer, I wouldn't think twice about crossing. If I thought that we were being taken advantage of, then I'd be out picketing.

[FireFly]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Aug 25 2005, 11:45 PM
Brilliant letter. A writer that wasn't so bold probably would have left out all the spelling errors, poor grammar and playground hygiene jokes when insulting the intelligence of other people.

"For reasons unbenounced to me..."?

Wow, that's good stuff.

I don't agree with the Telus union on this one, but that is a pretty effing stupid "letter".

Firefly, you do know he's referring to you and all Telus employees as fat, lazy, uneducated peons, don't you?

I caught that, although the direct reference is to the sheep who are on the outside.

[MarchHare]

Isn't taking someone's photo or shooting a video of someone without that person's consent illegal? Isn't that why on newscasts when they show stock footage of a busy street they normally just show people's feet as they walk?