Summer Prospect Ranking Poll Round 8

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Agreed. People seem to be thinking of Poirier and Klimchuk as 2nd and 3rd rounders respectively because they were our 2nd and 3rd round picks this year. But they were first rounders in one of the deepest drafts ever. There is a very good chance both of these guys are top 6 impact players.

Knight's upside is to be Manny Malholtra. ........, but if at least one of Poirer or Klimchuk don't greatly exceed his impact on the team this rebuild will take forever.

So one of the Flames 2 untradeable forwards came out of the University Of Alaska with 34 pts in 37 games. He didn't play in the NHL until he was 25 years old. And now Glencross is a top-6 player on any team in the league.

Knight is far ahead of Glencross at age 22.. At Age 25 the upside for Glencross was 4th line.

How can you guess with any certainty how guys with no pro experience will play in the NHL.... Nemisz made the WJC team.... Boyd and Dawes and Daniel Tkaczuk and even Rico Fata were stars on that team

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm no scout I'll tell you that.

But from what I've read, and comments from good friends of mine that know his family he's just one of those can't miss personalities that will do what it takes to succeed at anything he takes on.

Went to the camp and loved his small detail game, he does everything really well.

Add in that he played on a pretty poor team and scouts have remarked he'd light it up with a better team and powerplay and I think he has the package to be a solid top six going forward.

In all honesty he reminds me a lot of Jordan Eberle, point per game player on a bad hockey team, a little undersized and fell to the back of the first round.

I know Eberle has now had some epic team Canada moments, that I doubt Klimchuck or anyone else will be able to replicate, but there are a lot of similarities between the two in their respective draft years.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That would essentially make him a #1 C in the NHL as far as point production.

Knight may or may not be a decent NHL'er, but it seems there are some pretty heavy expectations from him for not a lot of apparent reasons other than he signed with Calgary and therefore may get a bigger opportunity than he would in other markets.

Personally I dont expect him to amount to a whole lot as a pro, but hope i am dead wrong.

I said I expected him to be a 35-point C with strong defensive upside. You don't have to look very far to find the reasons why he is a strong prospect.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

Gaudreau developed over the last 2 seasons much like Knight has over the last 4 seasons. Not sure how you would say Gaudreau has developed since he was drafted but no give Knight that same credit.

Since we acquired Gaudreau with the 104th overall pick, he's played:

Boston College - 79GP 42G 53A 95PTS +39
US WJC - 7GP 7G 2A 9PTS +2

And has been awarded:

2011/12 - HE - All-rookie team
2011/12 - HE Tournament MVP
2012/13 - NCAA - East First All-American Team
2012/13 - HE - First All-Star Team
2012/13 - HE - Scoring Leader
2012/13 - HE - Player of the Year


Since we acquired Knight with the 97th overall pick 1 month ago, he's done:

Nothing



That is why Gaudreau's development has moved him up our depth chart, and why I do not credit Knight's.


I can simply not justify saying that someone we got with the 97th pick is equally or more valuable than the player we took with the 22nd pick in the same draft. To say Knight had Florida bent over is reaching...

The Flames had the worst center depth in the league headed into the draft, and they valued him at being worth a 4th round pick.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Who the heck keeps picking Nemisz??? I want names dammit!

I've never said anyone's opinion was a stupid one...until now.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Who the heck keeps picking Nemisz??? I want names dammit!

I've never said anyone's opinion was a stupid one...until now.

Names of the voters are recorded. Just click on any of the numbers on the right.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

That voter is now on my "blocked" list.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

IMHO, Horak is a graduate like Brodie. I don't think he belongs in this poll.

That goes for Ramo and Berra as well since they've been playing in pro leagues for several years now.

Agreed, but I'm going to keep voting for Ramo because he is still on that list. Almost certainly one of the higher ceiling players of the entire list if he can replicate his KHL performance.

If Ramo was removed, I'd vote for Porier, but it him, Berra, and Horak seem to be lumped in as "prospects"...unless those are trick answers.

[Southern_Canuck]

It's kind of interesting:

Age 18:
Corban Knight (Center) AJHL GP 61 G 34 A 38 P 72 PIM 55 +/- (not recorded)
Emile Poirier (LW) QMJHL GP 65 G 32 A 38 P 70 PIM 101 +/- even
*Morgan Klimchuk (LW) WHL GP 72 G 36 A 40 P 76 PIM 20 -1

*Only turned 18 in March - probably should consider his next season as the "18 year old comparable".

From a statistical perspective, the three have similar production - however the AJHL is nowhere near the CHL in competition.

S_C

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Who the heck keeps picking Nemisz??? I want names dammit!

I've never said anyone's opinion was a stupid one...until now.

Must be a relative.

[djsFlames]

Granlund cause if he pans out (which he's looking more and more likely to) he'll be a solid 2nd line center or converted winger. As opposed to the 3rd line projections of Horak and Knight. Wouldn't argue with Corban getting this spot, though.

The 2013 kids come after those two, imo.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Since we acquired Gaudreau with the 104th overall pick, he's played:

Boston College - 79GP 42G 53A 95PTS +39
US WJC - 7GP 7G 2A 9PTS +2

And has been awarded:

2011/12 - HE - All-rookie team
2011/12 - HE Tournament MVP
2012/13 - NCAA - East First All-American Team
2012/13 - HE - First All-Star Team
2012/13 - HE - Scoring Leader
2012/13 - HE - Player of the Year


Since we acquired Knight with the 97th overall pick 1 month ago, he's done:

Nothing



That is why Gaudreau's development has moved him up our depth chart, and why I do not credit Knight's.


I can simply not justify saying that someone we got with the 97th pick is equally or more valuable than the player we took with the 22nd pick in the same draft. To say Knight had Florida bent over is reaching...

The Flames had the worst center depth in the league headed into the draft, and they valued him at being worth a 4th round pick.

I think it's a little silly to compare what knight had done since we acquired him vs. What Gaudreau has done since we picked him. It probably makes a lot more sense to look at what knight has done career wise since being picked in the 5th round.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by moon

At worst a 3rd line scorer like Stempniak? Knight a lock to be a quality 2nd/3rd line center?

Yes, I have watched Knight play more than once (I am a Panthers fan as well, so I am familiar with him as much as any of our guys) and his package of skills are that of a quality 35-40 point guy that plays well enough defensively and will win 55-60% of his faceoffs. If his offense improves towards being a 50 point guy, then he could be a low end 2nd line C. The comparison to Dave Bolland is a fairly decent one from what I've watched of both players. Knight doesn't quite have the same offensive talent as DB right now, but he's not bad. He's a lot better than Horak offensively.

Klimchuk has a very very hard shot that he gets off extremely fast. He has the best shot and release of any individual forward in the organization. Because of his shot alone, he should be an NHLer even if he's just a streaky guy like Stempniak that bounces around the league over his career. The rest of his game is similar to how the Sutters play, competent defensively and a hardworker. The type of guy that you could throw out on the 3rd line without issue. Add in his shot, and he should be a 15-20 goal guy if he doesn't progress much from here, and could be a lot more if he does (upside is a better defensive version of Eberle).

I know you hate all things Flames, but there are about 15 players in our prospect pool that should play in the NHL in some capacity, with another 6 or 7 that could if they take a step or two forward, even if some of those guys play for other teams through trade. I'm not saying any of them are star players, I don't think Monahan will be and he's our best forward, but there are a lot of legit players in the group, even if they are limited like Reinhart, Horak, Hanowski and others.

(Agostino, Arnold, Culkin, Cundari, Hanowski, Harrison, Horak, Kulak, Reinhart in addition to the top 10 prospects are the ones that I think are likely NHLers or close enough)

[moon]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I know you hate all things Flames,

LOL

Solid argument there.

I have no problem with projecting players to do well but making definitive statements like at worst he is a 3rd line scorer when there is still a reasonable chance he turns into nothing and that Knight is a lock to be a quality 2nd/3rd liner is silly for any prospect and especially second tier guys like these two.

It has nothing to do with me "hating all things Flames" and everything to do with having watched a ton of prospects to know that there is always a risk with guys like this and they are not close to being locks for anything especially 2nd/3rd line players at this point in their careers.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

I think it's a little silly to compare what knight had done since we acquired him vs. What Gaudreau has done since we picked him. It probably makes a lot more sense to look at what knight has done career wise since being picked in the 5th round.

You missed the point. Gaudreau's value when we picked him was the 4th rounder we picked him with. Knight's value, when we traded for him, was the 4th rounder we traded for him with.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by SebC

You missed the point. Gaudreau's value when we picked him was the 4th rounder we picked him with. Knight's value, when we traded for him, was the 4th rounder we traded for him with.

That's not an absolute truth. His value is impacted by the situation that the Panthers were in, and the other potential offers. In this case, he's a commodity, and the market parameters come into place. It's not as simple as Knight is a 4th round pick of the Flames. It's asinine to say that.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by SebC

You missed the point. Gaudreau's value when we picked him was the 4th rounder we picked him with. Knight's value, when we traded for him, was the 4th rounder we traded for him with.

Soon to be UFA center from Southern Alberta who's father is the chaplain for the Flames. The ball definitely wasn't in Florida's court for the trade negotiations.

That 4th rounder wasn't Knight's value, it was the value of exclusive negotiation rights for a month. Unless anyone wants to argue that at one point Bouwmeester's value was that third round pick the Flames traded for him.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by moon

LOL

Solid argument there.

I'm mostly pessimistic with my evaluations, but you take it to new heights, basically writing off everyone except the top two or three guys as being ones that have little to no hope of making the NHL. I don't know why you are so very pessimistic though.

I have no problem with projecting players to do well but making definitive statements like at worst he is a 3rd line scorer when there is still a reasonable chance he turns into nothing and that Knight is a lock to be a quality 2nd/3rd liner is silly for any prospect and especially second tier guys like these two.

There is always a chance that a player falls on his face once he makes it to the NHL, but both Klimchuk and Knight have enough all round skills and make up to be in the NHL. Knight is going to be on the Flames to start the year guaranteed unless he is injured. He's better than a lot of the 3rd and 4th liners that I've watched play for the Flames the past few years. So it's not a stretch to say that he's a lock to be a 3rd line C (especially with the Flames awesome C depth).

Klimchuk has a dynamite shot and good offensive instincts but plays like Nystrom or any of the Sutters. If he didn't have the offensive skill, the other parts of his game would likely make him an NHLer (he's in the same ballpark defensively as Reinhart, who will likely start on the 4th line this year)

It has nothing to do with me "hating all things Flames" and everything to do with having watched a ton of prospects to know that there is always a risk with guys like this and they are not close to being locks for anything especially 2nd/3rd line players at this point in their careers.

I too have watched tons of prospects over the last 20 years and of course not everyone will make it full time and there are no guarantees with any one player, but with all of our top ten guys, from similar prospects I've watched in the past, they all have a greater than 50% chance at being NHLers (except Gaudreau), even if only in a third/4th line role/backup. If a player has a well above average skill, they will likely be NHLers even if the rest of their game is average or worse. Poirier could only be Andrew Cogliano, Knight becoming another Steckel, and Gillies being a Backup goalie, but because of their niche talents, they should all be in the NHL.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I'm mostly pessimistic with my evaluations, but you take it to new heights, basically writing off everyone except the top two or three guys as being ones that have little to no hope of making the NHL. I don't know why you are so very pessimistic though.

That's not true at all. I think that Baertschi and Monahan are the only two guys with a better than 50% chance of being top 6/top 4 guys but see other guys that will make the NHL just in limited roles. I would think that in terms of guys having 5+ year NHL careers (i.e not spot duty sub 40 game seasons) I expect that guys like Reinhart, Wotherspoon, Horak, Bouma will all easily do that in a bottom 6/bottom pairing role.

I think that Gaudreau, Klimchuk, Poirier all have the talent to possibly make it in a top 6 role just think that the chances aren't better than 50% or likely at this point that they reach that level.

I don't think I am very pessimistic I just look at traditionally what most prospects around the league turn into and factor in the fact that the Flames have some of the dumbest/worst hockey people working for them and it seems unlikely that the Flames are going not only do great but way, way better than most or any team has in the past 15 years.

There is always a chance that a player falls on his face once he makes it to the NHL, but both Klimchuk and Knight have enough all round skills and make up to be in the NHL. Knight is going to be on the Flames to start the year guaranteed unless he is injured. He's better than a lot of the 3rd and 4th liners that I've watched play for the Flames the past few years. So it's not a stretch to say that he's a lock to be a 3rd line C (especially with the Flames awesome C depth).

I think Knight is going to play all year whether he deserves it or not I just don;t have much belief that he will be a legit 3rd liner and certainly a quality 2nd liner seems a big step up for him. The use of lock seems very strong for him.

Klimchuk has a dynamite shot and good offensive instincts but plays like Nystrom or any of the Sutters. If he didn't have the offensive skill, the other parts of his game would likely make him an NHLer (he's in the same ballpark defensively as Reinhart, who will likely start on the 4th line this year)

I like Klimchuk a lot but he was picked 28th for a reason and still has a lot of questions before saying he will likely be an NHLer.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by moon

That's not true at all. I think that Baertschi and Monahan are the only two guys with a better than 50% chance of being top 6/top 4 guys but see other guys that will make the NHL just in limited roles. I would think that in terms of guys having 5+ year NHL careers (i.e not spot duty sub 40 game seasons) I expect that guys like Reinhart, Wotherspoon, Horak, Bouma will all easily do that in a bottom 6/bottom pairing role.

I think that Gaudreau, Klimchuk, Poirier all have the talent to possibly make it in a top 6 role just think that the chances aren't better than 50% or likely at this point that they reach that level.

I don't think I am very pessimistic I just look at traditionally what most prospects around the league turn into and factor in the fact that the Flames have some of the dumbest/worst hockey people working for them and it seems unlikely that the Flames are going not only do great but way, way better than most or any team has in the past 15 years.



I think Knight is going to play all year whether he deserves it or not I just don;t have much belief that he will be a legit 3rd liner and certainly a quality 2nd liner seems a big step up for him. The use of lock seems very strong for him.



I like Klimchuk a lot but he was picked 28th for a reason and still has a lot of questions before saying he will likely be an NHLer.

How do you compare the Flames' prospects with those others around the NHL? Most experts view the Flames as having a top 10 prospect pool in the league right now apparently.

Also, I really don't like Feaster much, and he has made a few blunders last season. However, to his credit, he has pretty much allowed more knowledgeable people to handle the draft and development programs. What is it about Button and the scouts you don't like? You don't think there is a marked improvement in their ability by now? How about Weisbrod? Just curious as to how you see them. I USED to really hate Button. However, it was either a lack of experience in his earlier years, or a lack of support (the scouting department was tiny for a number of years). I really like him now, and would hate to see him replaced at this point. Flames also seem to be adding to it even now. Just an honest question - I just no longer see drafting and development being an issue at all (in fact, probably the only strength in the organization for me), and I just wonder how someone can really be down on it. Just history carried from the 90's through to at least 2005 (I notice an ever slight improvement from around 2008 or so and on, marked improvement starting in 2010).