Summer Prospect Rank Poll Round 5

[GGG]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Potential is a waste of a vote, in my mind.

I'm voting on who I've seen play, and how impressive they are, right now.

That's why it disappoints me that Jankowski is getting all of these votes. I like the kid, I think he has a shot at being a decent player.

People are voting with their hearts, rather than their heads.

There are better players than Jankowski on that list,and I agree that a guy like Breen is one of them. 3 years from now? Who knows. But I'm not taking this poll in the future, I'm taking it in the here and now.

Horak, Breen, Wotherspoon, Agostino, Knight and Sieloff are all better players at their respective positions than Jankowski is today. To be fair, every one of them deserves a vote before he does.

I disagree completely with your methodology. Trade Value might be the fairest way to evaluate them, or if you were drafting them today what order woukd you pick them. It has to balance probability and potential. To me a 5/6 upside defensemen has zero value and 3rd line forwards as minimal value. In my opinion any prospect that has a top4/top6 potential regardless of probability of making it has to be ranked higher than the bottom line guys,

So a guy like Breen to me has very little value compared to Jankowski. I agree that Seiloff and wortherspoon have top 4 upside so they would be very close.

If you always picked based on NHL readiness you would have to rank guys like knight over Johnny.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Couldn't disagree more.

I won't tell anyone that they have to vote on potential only, and if you weight the likelihood more than potential then fill your boots. But the question isn't "who is the better player today?" its "who's the next best Flames prospect on the list?"

I just looked the word up on the net and got this as the first definition; "The possibility or likelihood of some future event occurring"

and that future event in this case is the place these players will be when they finish developing.

I voted Wotherspoon in this round, but Jankowski is a good vote as well, and would have been my choice at 6 or 7 if he wasn't already gone.

I've been trying to vote based on who I think has more trade-value, which I imagine would be some combination of draft position/upside/likelihood of reaching upside/NHL readiness.

In this round I voted Jankowski. I think he has huge upside, and with his size should at worst be able to slot into a 3rd line position (although he'll have to work on face-offs and physicality to be effective there.

[Bingo]

and I'll say it again ...

I'm glad the Flames took the Jankowski risk. Teams that pick the player that has fallen the furthest ~cough~ Shinkaruk ~cough~ tend to fail every time. Teams that use conviction to use their own list tend to do well more often than not historically.

In this case the Flames drafted a kid that seems to be progressing on schedule and landed a recently signed bruising captain material defenseman for moving down.

Great move.

Love that the Flames prospect pool is deep enough that you get this kind of debate between picks five through seven!

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I wasn't expecting cundari to be in the running here at all but for some reason I liked watching him play last season. He seemed to hold his own, played a gritty style of defense that I believe the flames were sorely lacking. Out of the few prospects I've seen in action, he seemed the most likely to make the team in the role we saw him play last season. I understand that people don't see his potential being as high as some others, but he brings an element we are in serious need of.

Yeah, I'd really like to see at least one of Cundari or Breen make the team. We need their sandpaper but with the acquirement of Russel, I'm not holding my breath.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Bingo

and I'll say it again ...

I'm glad the Flames took the Jankowski risk. Teams that pick the player that has fallen the furthest ~cough~ Shinkaruk ~cough~ tend to fail every time. Teams that use conviction to use their own list tend to do well more often than not historically.

In this case the Flames drafted a kid that seems to be progressing on schedule and landed a recently signed bruising captain material defenseman for moving down.

Great move.

Love that the Flames prospect pool is deep enough that you get this kind of debate between picks five through seven!

As I have mentioned in another thread, talent is not the question mark nor is size with Jankowski.

Compete level will make or break him. He has the skill and hockey sense.

Right now he is regarded as being a soft player and that has nothing to do with age or strength.

Hopefully he figures out how hard he needs to compete.

[herashak]

Knight until jank shows he has a good chance at becoming an nhler.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by timbit

As I have mentioned in another thread, talent is not the question mark nor is size with Jankowski.

Compete level will make or break him. He has the skill and hockey sense.

Right now he is regarded as being a soft player and that has nothing to do with age or strength.

Hopefully he figures out how hard he needs to compete.

I love how all of a sudden this is a "thing" with Jankowski. First I heard about this was a few weeks ago after the prospect camp. Nothing out of all the games he played for Providence, but now all CP'ers are convinced he's a "soft, perimeter player who doesn't initiate". Personally I don't buy it.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

I love how all of a sudden this is a "thing" with Jankowski. First I heard about this was a few weeks ago after the prospect camp. Nothing out of all the games he played for Providence, but now all CP'ers are convinced he's a "soft, perimeter player who doesn't initiate". Personally I don't buy it.

No, actually the Providence coaches have a serious question about his compete level.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by timbit

No, actually the Providence coaches have a serious question about his compete level.

Proof?

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Proof?

None. Just making up stuff. My bad.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Everything I've heard about his attitude is he is driven and has a high compete level. He works out hard, wants to get back into the defensive play and is looking to improve his game. By all accounts he seems to have a positive attitude.

Don't mistake a lack of confidence with a a low compete level. He isn't aggressive, but it's not because he's lazy it's because he's not use to that play style. And now he's often tasked with going up against 20-some physically stronger players in a much more competitive league, it's going to take some adjustment.

Here's a quote from his coach:
http://www.hamiltonnews.com/communit...freshman-year/

“The number one thing is he needs is strength,” Leaman said.
“With strength comes confidence. He might not get leaned on as much. He’ll win more battles.”

That's about as detrimental quote as I've heard regarding his attitude, low confidence. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he isn't driven but I just never heard that from anyone but anonymous posters on messageboards.

[Żoso]

Went with Knight based on the possibility of him making an impact with the team this year. Honestly, I won't be surprised if he stays in Calgary for the entire season.

[sun]

Originally Posted by timbit

None. Just making up stuff. My bad.

It was a reasonable question. Maybe there was an article or something. You've spoken to the coaches, just say so and leave the sarcastic snark out of it.

[kehatch]

I am not sure why some people dislike Jankowski. He was a long term project that, if anything, is ahead of where he was expected to be.

If he fails to put up points at a decent pace this season I will start to get concerned. But for the time being there isn't any reason to worry about him IMO.

[Loyal and True]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I am not sure why some people dislike Jankowski. He was a long term project that, if anything, is ahead of where he was expected to be.

If he fails to put up points at a decent pace this season I will start to get concerned. But for the time being there isn't any reason to worry about him IMO.

I agree that it is at least a year too early to start worrying about Jankowski.

[icarus]

Took a long time of staring at the list but in the end went with Wotherspoon but it was close. His Portland and Team Canada experience give me confidence he can and will make the Flames as a valuable player.

[bubbsy]

Think people are being a bit tough on Jankowski. When he was drafted, there was definitely something to be excited about, however, it was also clear that this was going to be a long-term investment/project.

First year in a real league, didn't play his natural position, didn't blow anyone away, but showed he could belong against this level of competition. He's bigger, and likely more used to his size and the NCAA game, so am fully expecting to have a more impactful year this year.

I think his 3rd year will be the real checkpoint on his progress, as he'll have his first year at center under his belt after this, his 2nd year.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by timbit

As I have mentioned in another thread, talent is not the question mark nor is size with Jankowski.

Compete level will make or break him. He has the skill and hockey sense.

Right now he is regarded as being a soft player and that has nothing to do with age or strength.

Hopefully he figures out how hard he needs to compete.

No he is not.

Well, except by you.

[Enoch Root]

time for poll #6

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Think people are being a bit tough on Jankowski. When he was drafted, there was definitely something to be excited about, however, it was also clear that this was going to be a long-term investment/project.

First year in a real league, didn't play his natural position, didn't blow anyone away, but showed he could belong against this level of competition. He's bigger, and likely more used to his size and the NCAA game, so am fully expecting to have a more impactful year this year.

I think his 3rd year will be the real checkpoint on his progress, as he'll have his first year at center under his belt after this, his 2nd year.

I don't think enough is said about the jump in competition from high school Canadian hockey to the NCAA. We aren't talking about going up one level. I think jumping into the NCAA would be harder then going to the WHL (players are more developed and understand and play systems better).

He does need to take the next step but under the circumstances I thought his first year went alright.