[Signing] Blues sign Bouwmeester to 5yr extension ($5.4 mil AAV)

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What a load of crap. You realize the team actually added over $10 million talent last offseason with Hudler, Cervenka, and Wideman while the only loss from Brent's roster was Jokinen. So Hartley took a 90 point team that added two big UFA's and turned it into a 72 point team. The team's best players were past their prime three years ago as Iginla's decline started long before this season and Kipper's poor season is more a reflection of Hartleys "no defense" defensive system.

It's stunning how little credit Brent gets for keeping a bad team like the Flames in playoff contention every season. It was the fans that were out to lunch when publications were picking the roster to miss the playoffs the past three season as we completely overvalued the talent on the team. The rest of the hockey world didn't but we did and Brent managed to at least keep them close until the end of every season which was probably to the detriment of the rebuild.

Adding money to the roster isn't the same as adding talent. I bet any coach in the league would rather have a 32 year old Iginla and 33 year old Kiprusoff, not to mention the defense core we had at the time, than Hulder, Wideman, Cervenka, Iginla (35) and Kiprisoff (36).

Do people really have such short memories as to forget the expectations when Sutter took over? He took over a team that Keenan (!) guided into 5th place just the season before and that actually led the division be 13 points in January until a monumental rash of injuries (and cap problems) squandered it.

Brent Sutter failed to get team results that were expected and he failed to get the best players on the team to realize the full potential. Those are two pretty big failures.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Adding money to the roster isn't the same as adding talent. I bet any coach in the league would rather have a 32 year old Iginla and 33 year old Kiprusoff, not to mention the defense core we had at the time, than Hulder, Wideman, Cervenka, Iginla (35) and Kiprisoff (36).

Do people really have such short memories as to forget the expectations when Sutter took over? He took over a team that Keenan (!) guided into 5th place just the season before and that actually led the division be 13 points in January until a monumental rash of injuries (and cap problems) squandered it.

Brent Sutter failed to get team results that were expected and he failed to get the best players on the team to realize the full potential. Those are two pretty big failures.

It's getting off topic but Sutter did not take over the team that Keenan had. D Sutter went in a whole other head scratching direction.

Again i don't think there was a coach out in the NHL that could have changed the " country club" style. The main players have not wanted to play a 200' game for many many years.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

You mean the roster that had Nigel Dawes in the top 6. Hell they had Sjostrom play some games on the first line. They had no forwards other than Iggy. Glencross had not come into his own yet and Conroy was already ready for a desk job.

The trade's that D Sutter made that year were horrible. I don't think he could have picked a better bunch of guys to come back in trade that fit the "country club" type.

I meant to start the season, but I do agree the trades were terrible. Darryl blew up the team without getting any picks.

Anyway, I don't think it's wrong to say Bouwmeester's numbers in Calgary were a product of the system his coaches employed.

[Kool Keef]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

The roster Sutter inherited in 2009-2010 should have made the playoffs, imo.

I don't buy it. The previous year's roster had Cammelleri who nearly scored 40 goals and a motivated Todd Bertuzzi. Nigel Dawes was the sixth leading scorer during Brent's first year. Also, the roster he began the season with wasn't the same roster he ended the season with. I seem to recall a bit of a GM meltdown somewhere near the trade deadline that year.

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Sutter even admitted after his first season here the team focused too much on defending and it was mainly his fault, yet he refused to change anything.

The stats don't support your point. The Flames went from 29th for goals scored in Brent's first season to 8th for goals scored in his second. Unfortunately, the Flames' team defense sucked, but that's a byproduct of a talent deficient team. They can't excel at one end of the ice without exposing the other end.

Hasn't this board been through this before?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

It's getting off topic but Sutter did not take over the team that Keenan had. D Sutter went in a whole other head scratching direction.

Again i don't think there was a coach out in the NHL that could have changed the " country club" style. The main players have not wanted to play a 200' game for many many years.

I don't think Darryl Sutter made those moves with zero input from Brent Sutter. No doubt they tried to purge players that were to influenced by Keenan's style, but I doubt that was all on Darryl.

Perhaps the fact that the team was jerked in so many directions was Darryl's doing, but the core of the team and the key players were the same when Brent Sutter became coach.

Anyway, it is getting off topic. Suffice to say, as far as Bouwmeester is concerned, he had drastically different individual results under Sutter than he did under coaches he had before that and after. It shouldn't be a stretch to conclude that coaching played a role in his value.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

You mean the roster that had Nigel Dawes in the top 6. Hell they had Sjostrom play some games on the first line. They had no forwards other than Iggy. Glencross had not come into his own yet and Conroy was already ready for a desk job.

The trade's that D Sutter made that year were horrible. I don't think he could have picked a better bunch of guys to come back in trade that fit the "country club" type.

And yet that team was one of the top teams in the entire league for the first half of the season. It wasn't until before the Olympic break when the wheels began to fall off and Darryl went crazy for those couple of days.

Absolutely, that team should have made the playoffs, and even done some damage. Before the trade we had Bouw, Phaneuf, Regehr, Sarich and Gio as our top defenseman. Boy that looks great on paper. Sure Iggy had a down year, but Kipper posted a .920 save %.

Brent's first season started out great....then got derailed sometime before the Olympics.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Brent's first season started out great....then got derailed sometime before the Olympics.

It derailed when they went into a slump and the locker rooom became toxic which caused the Phaneuf and Jokinen trades that sent the team into a tailspin that it never recovered from. The team after those trades had less overall talent and a significant change in the team with five new players in the middle of the season. It never gelled and never worked. After that the talent level eroded but last offseason Wideman was added to jumpstart the powerplay and Hudler and Cervenka were added bolster forward talent and the team got much, much worse under a coach that has been out of the league for far too long that seemed to be in over his head for much of the season. 72 points in this day and age is awful and there is no way the coach doesn't take responsibility for a 20 point decrease in points from the year before after the GM supposedly reloaded in the offseason.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Kool Keef

Hasn't this board been through this before?

Many times, as has the poster
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...er#post4127404

Originally Posted by Frank Metamusil

After watching the dreaded California gauntlet, I owe a few posters an apology.

Beers, Walken, & Tinordi might post the same tiresome crap, but they aren't wrong. I'm going to end up donating $20 to CP because the Flames just can't get it done. It sucks, but I am also willing to admit I was wrong. Brent Sutter drove individual player value down, but Hartley can't do much better. Time to try and move Bouwmeester/Stajan, or even Giordano (before his value goes to 0)

Flash said it best, Hartley's PK and defense make Keenan's look like a lockdown system. The team just can't get any mojo. Sven is back in the minors (reminds me of Backlund) and the team is still trying to win.

I'm at the point where they need to consistently win or lose as well. Enough 9th places. If they can't unload Iginla, it's not the end of the world either. Just don't re-sign him. He's not going to change the fact that the Flames can't develop any of their 1st round picks.

Just a trainwreck, and it sucks even more watching a Darryl Sutter coached team pound on Calgary.

I really hope they figure #### out soon. Moon, you actually cheer when the team scores goals, but I'm also sorry for calling out your trolling.

I don't know how Oilers fans have tolerated this crap for so long either..... :sad:

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Many times, as has the poster
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...er#post4127404

You guys aren't wrong saying Hartley doesn't focus on defending. The rebuild needed to happen. Again though, Bouwmeester's individual numbers were worse under Brent.

I think the Blues are going to regret this signing.

I'm glad you've bookmarked that post man

[cannon7]

That's OK value for JBo, I guess...

Plays a lot of minutes, has an ideal role in St. Louis as a #2 because he sure struggled as a number one.

We gave Wideman a similar contract last summer, plays a lot of minutes as well but also provides a lot of offense --which JBo is still struggling to provide.

He'll do fine for the Blues. It's not nearly as bad as some in this thread might think...

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Whatever it was, it's not the foundation of any successful hockey team. And that's what he was being asked to be here. Part of the foundation.

As a 5.4M secondary piece, where he's got Pietrangelo, Backes, Polak, Shattenkirk, Oshie, Jackman etc to be more prominent players, he's fine. When you need him to set the tone for a franchise, you get us.

Exactly the problem..... He is the 6th - 8th most important player on the team and the 5th most important D-MAN. How does that translate to 5.4M/year? How does the dressing room stay together when Bouwmeester is getting paid as a go-to guy and playing to the level he does?

You do remember that St.L took a step back-wards in the playoffs with Bouwmeester-Pietroangelo getting rolled in 4 straight games in round 1 . The year before they spanked SJ in round 1 (4 straight after an OT loss)with Pietroangelo -Colaiacovo / Kris Russell in Bouwmeesters spot.


Bouwmeester makes his defense partner play far worse than they are...... Regeher, Gio and even Butler. Butler with Buffalo was their best young d-man.... a year with Bouwmeester and his career is on the rocks. There are no examples of Bouwmeester's d-partner improving like you would expect from a top D-man.


The trade and contract extension would never have happened with John Davidson in charge of the Blues.... The Blues slow climb to the top is over.... they are on the down side and Columbus is poised to take over as the best up and coming team.


The missed opportunity of the Flames not taking their once in a generation opportunity to get Davidson when he was available is close to the Gilmour trade as the worst management decision/ indecision ever.

Owners should have offered Davidson full control and been willing to dump and pay off Feaster, King and the whole management/ coaching/scouting staff on Davidson's say so.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

You guys aren't wrong saying Hartley doesn't focus on defending. The rebuild needed to happen. Again though, Bouwmeester's individual numbers were worse under Brent.

I think the Blues are going to regret this signing.

I'm glad you've bookmarked that post man

Bouwmeester is only as good as the team he plays for. On a good team he will do well and on a bad team he will look pretty average. Right now the Blues are a good team and he will play well for them as long as they are good team. He's just not a difference maker so if the team spirals downward he's not going to be able to make a difference.

I think that with the excitement of the draft a lot of fans forgot how bad the Flames played last season. It's one thing to watch a team play close to the vest hockey and be competitive even if it's not firewagon exciting but last season was excruciatingly painful watching this team attempt to play defense. There was a stretch where the Flames couldn't go a game without letting in less than 4 goals a game and it was just ugly. The stats don't lie and even a team that quit like the Avalanche sported a better goals against average than the Flames. The silver lining is that it enabled the Flames to draft a potential franchise center.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

You guys aren't wrong saying Hartley doesn't focus on defending. The rebuild needed to happen. Again though, Bouwmeester's individual numbers were worse under Brent.

I think the Blues are going to regret this signing.

I'm glad you've bookmarked that post man

I don't think the blues will regret this signing at all. JBO needs that certain #1 type d-man to play with and he has it. JBO's style of game ( non physical) will mean that he will not slow down when he hits 34-35.

I think JBO and Pietrangelo will be one of the better top D pairing in the league for many years.

[Meers]

Not a horrible signing. Probably a year too long and $400,000 too much.

For all but one of the last few years, however, Jaybouw was playing like a $4 million defenceman. I expect him to regress to his mean next year - which will make this contract seem a slight overpayment - but not nearly as much of an overpayment as the Flames got suckered for.

[Wolven]

I think this will be a great signing for both the Blues and for Bouwmeester.

The Blues look like they have set themselves up to be a playoff contender for the near future and they definitely turned into a better team when Bouwmeester joined their roster. Likewise, Bouwmeester looked like a better player on a team that has a system that is willing to utilize his speed and ability to quickly recover his defensive position after a pinch.

I can see both sides of this deal become very happy with the arrangement.

[CaptainYooh]

Good for Bouwmeester and for the Blues. I liked his play even though he didn't hit. His last season here was a great improvement, I thought. He just wasn't coached right for his skill-set. I don't mind Wideman too - good work ethics, good positioning.

Seems as we never like what we have here in Calgary until we lose it.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Exactly the problem..... He is the 6th - 8th most important player on the team and the 5th most important D-MAN. How does that translate to 5.4M/year? How does the dressing room stay together when Bouwmeester is getting paid as a go-to guy and playing to the level he does?

You do remember that St.L took a step back-wards in the playoffs with Bouwmeester-Pietroangelo getting rolled in 4 straight games in round 1 . The year before they spanked SJ in round 1 (4 straight after an OT loss)with Pietroangelo -Colaiacovo / Kris Russell in Bouwmeesters spot.


Bouwmeester makes his defense partner play far worse than they are...... Regeher, Gio and even Butler. Butler with Buffalo was their best young d-man.... a year with Bouwmeester and his career is on the rocks. There are no examples of Bouwmeester's d-partner improving like you would expect from a top D-man.


The trade and contract extension would never have happened with John Davidson in charge of the Blues.... The Blues slow climb to the top is over.... they are on the down side and Columbus is poised to take over as the best up and coming team.


The missed opportunity of the Flames not taking their once in a generation opportunity to get Davidson when he was available is close to the Gilmour trade as the worst management decision/ indecision ever.

Owners should have offered Davidson full control and been willing to dump and pay off Feaster, King and the whole management/ coaching/scouting staff on Davidson's say so.

I like how you forgot to mention that the team that the young Blues had to play this year in the first round were the defending cup champions LA. I don't think any had the Blues being able to beat LA.

Also Pietrangelo was not having as great a season this year before JBO arrived as you might have thought.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I like how you forgot to mention that the team that the young Blues had to play this year in the first round were the defending cup champions LA. I don't think any had the Blues being able to beat LA.

Also Pietrangelo was not having as great a season this year before JBO arrived as you might have thought.

Take that a step further. Going into the playoffs I didn't think for a second that the Blues were going to be able to handle the Kings and then the Blues won the first two games in the series. Every game was a one goal game and Game 5 could have just as easily been an overtime win for the Blues as the Kings.

I am happy that the Blues lost and gave us a better draft pick but I have to admit that I was really worried that they were going to go to the Conference or even the Cup finals.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Exactly the problem..... He is the 6th - 8th most important player on the team and the 5th most important D-MAN. How does that translate to 5.4M/year? How does the dressing room stay together when Bouwmeester is getting paid as a go-to guy and playing to the level he does?

You do remember that St.L took a step back-wards in the playoffs with Bouwmeester-Pietroangelo getting rolled in 4 straight games in round 1 . The year before they spanked SJ in round 1 (4 straight after an OT loss)with Pietroangelo -Colaiacovo / Kris Russell in Bouwmeesters spot.


Bouwmeester makes his defense partner play far worse than they are...... Regeher, Gio and even Butler. Butler with Buffalo was their best young d-man.... a year with Bouwmeester and his career is on the rocks. There are no examples of Bouwmeester's d-partner improving like you would expect from a top D-man.


The trade and contract extension would never have happened with John Davidson in charge of the Blues.... The Blues slow climb to the top is over.... they are on the down side and Columbus is poised to take over as the best up and coming team.


The missed opportunity of the Flames not taking their once in a generation opportunity to get Davidson when he was available is close to the Gilmour trade as the worst management decision/ indecision ever.

Owners should have offered Davidson full control and been willing to dump and pay off Feaster, King and the whole management/ coaching/scouting staff on Davidson's say so.

Oh please. This is the most pathetic post I've seen in a long time.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Exactly the problem..... He is the 6th - 8th most important player on the team and the 5th most important D-MAN. How does that translate to 5.4M/year?

Per USA Today:

He (Bouwmeester) ranked second on the team with 25:07 in average ice time during the playoffs.
The Blues also re-signed defensemen Kevin Shattenkirk (four years, $17 million) and in-season acquisition Jordan Leopold (two years, $4.5 million) this summer.
Still to be signed is Alex Pietrangelo, who led team defensemen in ice time (26:06), points (24) and assists (19) and tied for first with five goals.

It doesn't look like Hitchcock or the GM thought that Bouwmeester was the 5th most important D man.