777 crashes in San Fran

[Bigtime]

This info from the NTSB:

Crew called for more power 7 seconds prior to impact, at 4 seconds stick shaker is heard, at 1.5 seconds called for go around.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

This info from the NTSB:

Crew called for more power 7 seconds prior to impact, at 4 seconds stick shaker is heard, at 1.5 seconds called for go around.

From what the videos show and the NTSB has released, sounds like they goofed on the approach, tried too late to add thrust and pitch up for a go-around, but just ended up pitching up so the tail got taken out on the seawall.
Likely pilot wasn't familiar enough with the size and mass of such a big plane to realize thrust wouldn't be there to save him for a couple more seconds. A stalling 777 isn't going to just glide delicately.

[Bigtime]

A lot is being made about the new 777 Captain only having 43 hours on the 777, but here is the other info about him:

On Jul 8th South Korea's Ministry of Transport reported the captain (43, ATPL, 9,793 hours total) of the ill-fated flight was still under supervision doing his first landing into San Francisco on a Boeing 777, although he had 29 landings into San Francisco on other aircraft types before. He was supervised by a training captain with 3,220 hours on the Boeing 777, all responsibilities are with the training captain.

So what was he flying the other 29 times? According to Wikipedia Asiana also operates the A333, B744 and B763, so if they ever operated those into SFO that was most likely what he was flying. So it is not like he didn't have widebody experience into SFO before.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

A lot is being made about the new 777 Captain only having 43 hours on the 777, but here is the other info about him:

On Jul 8th South Korea's Ministry of Transport reported the captain (43, ATPL, 9,793 hours total) of the ill-fated flight was still under supervision doing his first landing into San Francisco on a Boeing 777, although he had 29 landings into San Francisco on other aircraft types before. He was supervised by a training captain with 3,220 hours on the Boeing 777, all responsibilities are with the training captain.

So what was he flying the other 29 times? According to Wikipedia Asiana also operates the A333, B744 and B763, so if they ever operated those into SFO that was most likely what he was flying. So it is not like he didn't have widebody experience into SFO before.

Sounds like the airline had set up the scenario properly - an experienced 777 training officer as co-pilot overseeing an experienced wide-body captain learning a new aircraft type.

In spite of all that, it does look like the two flying officers just flat out blew the landing.

Cowperson

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Curious, whats the reason for that? I fly in/out of SFO a lot and they get a ton of delay/cancellation due to weather when Air Canada can rock themselves out of a rut in the middle of a Canadian winter; I could never understand what made SFO so unique.

Here's what makes SFO unique among major airports, 2 sets of parallel runways very close to each other, arranged in a cross. The first problem is obviously that they're in a cross, so you can't use them all at the same time. But even worse, the 2 runways in each of the pairs are too close to each other to be used concurrently in poor visibility. So while some of the Canadian airports you might be thinking of will take a hit to their arrival/departure rates in poor weather, you can see why SFO becomes nearly useless.



The best way do to do it is 4+ parallel runways with lots of distance between them to allow simultaneous operations: LAX, DFW, Atlanta, Denver, Detroit... Chicago O'Hare is spending billions to reconfigure their airport like this.

[Rudee]

Pretty sure the flying career for the Pilot and Co-pilot is over. These guys will never pilot an aircraft again.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Not sure about the bolded part (perhaps why you assign only 1% to it). I would think the tower controllers are spending more time visually watching the runway and traffic around it to make sure the runway remains clear for arriving and departing traffic (also checking things like the ASDE screen). Sure the controller that day may have made a cursory glance at the Asiana bird on final, but they were probably also watching the UA 744 that was taxiing to the hold line of that same runway to make sure things stayed on the up and up.

If my suspicions are correct and the aircraft was too high when he made the turn into the bay the controllers job is to help him and follow the bird to the ground...we'll see how it shakes out.

[Acey]

The controller's job is to give him instructions so as to keep him from hitting other airplanes. The well being of the aircraft and getting to the ground in one piece is the responsibility of the captain.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

San Francisco Chronicle is quoting an official as saying one of the Chinese fatalities is being autopsied to see if she was run over by an emergency response vehicle.

Cowperson

If it's your time, it's just your time. That's terrible though.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Peanut

If it's your time, it's just your time. That's terrible though.

'Whew, survived a plane crash, today must not have been my t....KA-THUNK.'

Ya, that would suck.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by T@T

If my suspicions are correct and the aircraft was too high when he made the turn into the bay the controllers job is to help him and follow the bird to the ground...we'll see how it shakes out.

As acey says, the controllers job isn't to fly the plane. In fact it was the controller that would have caused them to be high in the first place in all likelihood. They then trust the pilots to make it work out.

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by Zevo

'Whew, survived a plane crash, today must not have been my t....KA-THUNK.'

Ya, that would suck.

As an ARFF Firefighter, that would be my worst nightmare. We've actually altered our protocols to minimize the chances of that happening. We used to place one ARFF truck at the end of the runway where the aircraft would be landing (approach end), and one on a taxiway near the center of the airfield.

A few years ago, we thought, "Wait, aircraft typically land into the wind, so our trailing engine will to not only be driving through any debris/victims, etc. left by an aircraft that is breaking apart, but we'll also likely be driving into any smoke from the aircraft. Let's change that." So now we keep the center truck where it is, and bring the second truck from the opposite departure end of the runway.

Not that I'm criticizing their protocols, because they're a huge E index airport, and I work at a podunk B/C index. I'm sure they have their reasons. It was just the first thing that popped in my mind when I saw the possibility that this had happened.

I honestly hope I never have to do what they had to do that day.

[Peanut]

I don't understand how all the crew was able to survive. Don't a bunch of the flight attendants typically sit in the tail area of the plane during landing? Or is there space between the back end of the cabin and the actual tail part?

[FlamesAddiction]

There are reports now that one of the girls killed may have actually escaped from the plane only to get ran over by an emergency vehicle.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk...d-dead-2039623

Edit:

Sorry, I don't know how I missed that it was already posted.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Peanut

I don't understand how all the crew was able to survive. Don't a bunch of the flight attendants typically sit in the tail area of the plane during landing? Or is there space between the back end of the cabin and the actual tail part?

There is space between the back of the cabin and the tail, you can see in some of the pictures the cylindrical pressure bulkhead that "caps" the back of the pressurized cabin.

[Montana Moe]

I was thinking about the ARFF response last night, and I didn't take in to account the fact that there was no emergency declared before landing, so there would be no time to properly stage vehicles.

Listening to the firefighters debriefing yesterday, it sounded like the initial response was to the front of the aircraft, taking position at the 1:00 of the aircraft (the nose of the aircraft being 12:00). Once the huge response started arriving, it could have been any number of vehicles, if it even happened at all. At this point it's all speculation.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There are reports now that one of the girls killed may have actually escaped from the plane only to get ran over by an emergency vehicle.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk...d-dead-2039623

Edit:

Sorry, I don't know how I missed that it was already posted.

In this case. I'm surprised that only one person was hit. Perhaps she was running towards the friend that died?

[flamesfan6]

wow some interesting things have come out about it and the experience of the pilots... not only was the pilot learning the 777, it was the co-pilots first time as an instructor pilot

He had flown 10 legs and had about 35 hours of flying time with the 777, which put him about halfway through the required training of 20 legs and 60 flight hours, when the plane went down, Hersman said.
When that happened, sitting beside him was the instructor pilot. Saturday's flight to northern California was the first time he had traveled with the flying pilot and the first time he had been an instructor pilot, according to Hersman.

also some information about 2 flight attendants

Two of those injured are flight attendants who, Hersman explained, were not in their seats at the rear of the aircraft when the plane finally ground to a halt.
The reason? They were "ejected" as the aircraft broke up.
"They were found down the runway and off to the side of the runway," Hersman said, adding that both survived but suffered unspecified injuries.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/09/us/asi...html?hpt=hp_t1

[Rudee]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There are reports now that one of the girls killed may have actually escaped from the plane only to get ran over by an emergency vehicle.

I highly doubt she "escaped". She more than likely fell out.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Rudee

I highly doubt she "escaped". She more than likely fell out.

lol what, how do you even get to that?

By escape I'd imagine he was talking about one of the many survivors of the plane crash.