Is it possible to make jokes about rape? Of course. It's just very, very, very difficult to do it well. Most jokes about rape will be awful, unfunny, and inappropriate. Occasionally someone who's either very good, or very lucky, will stumble onto a construction of a joke about rape that actually works.
Because it's such challenging subject matter, the vast majority of comedians would be better off leaving it the hell alone.
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So what exactly can we tell jokes about? I'm curious, I know there has been a lot of abortion and Hiroshima examples thrown around, but I want to hear from someone who is against rape jokes (aka freedom of speech, which also means you do have the right to call a comic a dick if you don't like him) show me a video clip of some funny comics that tell inoffensive jokes. I really cant think of any.
If you start censoring jokes we end up with lots of "whats the deal with airline peanuts" jokes.
I truly believe it is either all okay or none okay. Please show me a funny clip that would not offend anyone and I will find a clip that is much funnier by a more popular comic that is offensive.
1 in 5 could be the real number of women getting raped over their lifetimes.
The same study came up with 1% of women getting raped every year, which doesn't sound too incredible, and there methods and categorizations seem okay at first glance.
The US justice Bureau has a much much lower number, 0.18% that suffer from any kind of sexual assault. (This is an estimate based on statistics, haven't checked the methods.)
The Justice Bureau numbers also have sexual assault going down quite a bit over the last decade, which I think is credible considering how much more attention it has gotten and shows that yeah, it actually is worth talking about.
As to rape jokes, of course you can make rape jokes. However, trying to be funny is not a carte blance to be an ***hole either. You said, you own it, and if you get lynched, how should I put it...
My friend has this saying that translates to "my cup of sympathy is overflowing, but very very small". I think it's fitting here.
Here's a good rape joke. I happen to especially like this because I've been in that situation and had that discussion.
So what exactly can we tell jokes about? I'm curious, I know there has been a lot of abortion and Hiroshima examples thrown around, but I want to hear from someone who is against rape jokes (aka freedom of speech, which also means you do have the right to call a comic a dick if you don't like him) show me a video clip of some funny comics that tell inoffensive jokes. I really cant think of any.
If you start censoring jokes we end up with lots of "whats the deal with airline peanuts" jokes.
I truly believe it is either all okay or none okay. Please show me a funny clip that would not offend anyone and I will find a clip that is much funnier by a more popular comic that is offensive.
Two of the greatest comics of all time, Cosby and Seinfeld, are rarely if ever offensive. Granted these two, especially Seinfeld are on a level all their own.
Most comics are offensive and heavily so and if you go to a show expect some sort offensive speech. If you go in expecting a rainbows and butterflies speech that is on you and I don't think you have a right to complain.
You may want to highlight specific passages made by Cosby.
Agreed though that Cosby was fairly capable of delivering good jokes without much negative implication. I'm not really anti-rape jokes (though I think I express the same sentiment of driveway's that the comedian has to consider the nature of the topic heavily when writing their jokes)...I just liked Cosby, who was capable of delivering fairly clean (in content and language) comedy.
My personal favourite:
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Last edited by kirant; 06-10-2013 at 12:17 PM.
Reason: Specifying last sentence a little more
Interesting topic. And it had me rethinking my complaint from another thread about the place of profanity in debate, which I typed just before opening this thread yesterday. Anyways, I wanted to address something said way back on the first page:
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Originally Posted by bcsoda
There is a huge difference between fantasy and reality...
At this point, there really is no further argument. Is comedy any different AT ALL than fantasy? It's fiction. The reason we laugh at satire is because it survives on imagined, grossly exaggerated constructs of reality that simultaneously help to expose the many absurdities of reality. So, I would absolutely agree with you here. YES, there is a HUGE difference between fantasy and reality, and YES, because comedy is in every way a form of "fantasy", then taking offense at the subject matter is an over-reaction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcsoda
....I would be willing to bet that any woman with a rape fantasy does not actually want to get raped. Maybe she fantasizes about it, but the thing about a fantasy, even about rape, is that you are still technically in control of that situation. Your mind dictates if something is going to happen or if it's going too far. Even if you play out a rape fantasy with a partner there is still some element of control because if you say something is too much then your partner is going to (or at least they should) respect that. These women may be fantasizing about it, but I would be really surprised if they actually truly wanted to be raped by a stranger with no control over the situation.
You lose me here. The insinuation is that in a context in which a rape joke is told, women who have experienced forms of sexual abuse have unwillingly surrendered some form of control. Can you explain how? I suppose that especially traumatised women are in danger of having their own memories of the event triggered by jokes about rape, but I also expect that there are a great number of other extremely mundane or benign triggers that are just as powerful. How do we control them all? Furthermore, what harm really befalls someone for having painful—even extremely and horrifically painful memories—recalled? The sentiment that we all need to be protected from offense is little different philosophically than thought crime. We can't and SHOULD NOT punish or reprimand people for what they are thinking, and we moreover should not punish people for triggering thoughts among their peers.
Finally, we may discover that joking and making light of tragedy is in many ways therapeutic. As a society, we need comedy, and we depend upon it precisely to alleviate the trauma of grappling with the many terrible things that are part of life. It's cathartic. Laughing in the face of tragedy is actually very empowering—it rather screams "control!"
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
I didn't read that original post, but in the quote you've included, it seems like the point is that it's not a sexual thing to be joking about. Rape is about power, not sex, and specifically men's power over women (most of the time). A joke about a brutal tool of oppression in which the real and potential victims are 50% of the room and that frames men as violent oppressors is sort of a hard thing to pull off. And I'm not sure you can speak to it being "cathartic" unless you've been there. I sincerely hope you haven't.
Although I can't say I agree with rape humour, and don't find it funny, this comedian kinda hits it on the head. "Go to Church shows, we're in a basement in New York. I'll talk about what the F I want, because I'm an f'n adult."
Are jokes about the assault, murder, and sodomization of women funny to me? No. But anyone going to a comedy show should know, nothing is off limits, and sometimes you have to sit through some pretty uncomfortable stuff before you get to something that may fit your comfort zone.
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Para phrasing but something like 'it's not like the guys there were like'we'll im not doing anything after so...'. Her phrasing and delivery was that of a joke. That's a rape joke. Shame on her, right?
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Para phrasing but something like 'it's not like the guys there were like'we'll im not doing anything after so...'. Her phrasing and delivery was that of a joke. That's a rape joke. Shame on her, right?
No one has said that you can't tell rape jokes. She didn't do a great job of making the distinction between "good" and "bad" rape jokes in the debate with Jim Norton, but even Lindy West is ok with rape being the subject of comedy at times. Here's a decent column of hers where she makes the distinction.
I actually agree with Daniel Tosh's sentiment in his s***ty back-pedaling tweet ("The point I was making before I was heckled is there are awful things in the world but you can still make jokes about them #deadbabies"). The world is full of terrible things, including rape, and it is okay to joke about them. But the best comics use their art to call bulls**t on those terrible parts of life and make them better, not worse. The key—unless you want to be called a garbage-flavored d*** on the internet by me and other humans with souls and brains—is to be a responsible person when you construct your jokes. Since the nuances of personal responsibility seem to escape so many people, let's go through it. Let's figure out rape jokes.
