[News] Hart finalists: Crosby, Ovechkin, Tavares

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by troutman

Except the last 3 years there was inter-conference play, and Eastern writers were forced to watch Western teams. Also, Eastern stats were not as inflated, by avoiding the stronger teams in the West.

Friedman said there was clearly Eastern bias.

I'll buy the inflated stats

it's a different style of play, but I still don't see it

Crosby is clearly the best player in the league he's always going to get a nom

and I have no problem with Ovechkin/Tavares getting picked because of the lack of talent outside of them on their teams

if Toews was in for one of them I wouldn't call it a stolen nomination, but it's not a situation where someone from the West completely jumped out

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Kaine

*sigh* MVP to their respective teams, not hypothetical trades or MVP of the league. It's the Hart award, not a medal of participation at some school event.

A medal of participation is exactly what you make the Hart trophy when you start handing out the award to guys solely because they played on mediocre teams.

Might as well call it the Pity Award.

Regardless of the wording of the trophy it has always been handed out to one of, if not the best player in the league. If it somehow went to Tavares, it's just a case of hockey writers trying to write a great script. Lame.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I guess over half the board disagrees with you so far Oilstain

[Hockey_Ninja]

J.T. Lead the Islanders to the playoffs when everyone saw them as a lottery team once again. But i'm pretty sure that Crosby will win it, especially if he wins the cup.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

I think you forgot the rest of that line which was Lemieux for part of the season as well as Palffy. I mean they are no Brad Boyes, but who is.

Lemieux retired 26 games into the season. Palfry played around 40. In the last 29 games without those two Crosby scored at a 120 point pace......


Moulson is a good player. The whole Tavares "made him" angle is ######ed. Mouslon scored 30 goals when tavares was only a 54 point player his first season.

They said the same thing about Parenteau. He did just fine in Colorado without Tavares.

Rick Nash never took off in points when he left Columbus. The whole linemates excuse is just that. An excuse. Great players produce under any circumstances.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I guess over half the board disagrees with you so far Oilstain

I'm not really surprised.

Tavares is the new Rick Nash.

Gets credit far beyond his accomplishments.

[Jebus]

Tavares would be my vote this year. Crosby is by far the best player in the league, but the time off just brought him back to earth enough to let others get consideration. Had he played a full season, Crosby would be unanimous choice for first, second and third nomination. no point putting anyone else on the ballot.

Tavares is an unbelievable talent. Having watched him live earlier this week against the Pens, it made me appreciate him even more. Such a focal point of all offensive flow, and a focal point of all defensive attention. Say what you want about Tavares' linemates being good/bad, but I will tell you that any play Tavares was pinned or neutrlized, that line just died.

Tavares as a Hart nomination reminds me of when Iginla was up for the same award. Not enough talent around him to be a hands down winner, but too damn good and too damn productive to be ignored.

Make no mistake the Isles would be far out of the dance without Tavares. And the Long Island faithful know who deserves the hardware - JT was cheered with "MVP" chants all night long during breaks in play or after he made something happen on the ice.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Kaine

And yet that is exactly what the award is. You can not agree with it all you like and you are more than entitled to your opinion, but the award is what it is. It's based on how big a contribution said player(s) make to their teams. Crosby missed more than a few games of the season and the Pens were still a top team. Yes Tavares played the entire season so it's tough to say for certain how they would have done without him, but it is VERY unlikely they are even close to a playoff team without him considering how the carried the offense.

As someone else said if Crosby had played the entire season the argument could be made for him winning it since he really would have run away not only on his team, but the entire league. This wasn't the case however and in my opinion he had a much smaller impact to bringing his team to the post season than the other two nominees. I don't think missing a quarter of the season works in his favor for this particular award regardless of how good a player he is.

Also I think people need to get away from the mentality that the best player should win all possible awards just because they are the best. Sometimes we forget that certain awards have meaning aside from putting up the most numbers.

Every single year, people come out with the argument that it is the most valuable TO THEIR TEAM and then parade out a player that helped their team scrape into the playoffs.

And every year, said player doesn't win it, but the best player in the league does.

The fact that your team is good without you, doesn't reduce your value as a player.

As others have pointed out, if it really did go to the player 'most valuable to his team' it would go to a goalie almost every year.

I hear what you are saying, believe me. And I used to make the same argument. But the fact of the matter is that each year, that player (the JT who carried his team into the playoffs) doesn't win. Each year, the best player wins.

And Crosby was the best player, whether he played all the games or not.

[JohnnyB]

I don't see why everyone's arguing about Crosby and Tavares. Ovechkin is the one who was both an outstanding individual talent with top numbers in the league and the one whose individual performances clearly made the difference between his team being a cellar dweller or being a division champ. He's the obvious choice from those three.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Sid shouldn't win it. The team still racks up the wins without him so it would be hard to argue he is the most valuable to his team. However, take Ovechkin and Tavares out and you have completely different teams. I'm on the Tavares end. Tavares dragged his team kicking and screaming to the last playoff spot, while Ovechkin is surrounded by other elite talent.

JT for me.

The Hart is never interpreted literally. Always goes to the player who had the best season.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

A medal of participation is exactly what you make the Hart trophy when you start handing out the award to guys solely because they played on mediocre teams.

Might as well call it the Pity Award.

Regardless of the wording of the trophy it has always been handed out to one of, if not the best player in the league. If it somehow went to Tavares, it's just a case of hockey writers trying to write a great script. Lame.

I'll ignore the rest as you clearly have delusional rankings for players but did you honestly just refer to Tavares as some bum? Like him or not he is one of the best players in the league. Hate to break it to you but not everybody is going to be a Crosby.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I don't see why everyone's arguing about Crosby and Tavares. Ovechkin is the one who was both an outstanding individual talent with top numbers in the league and the one whose individual performances clearly made the difference between his team being a cellar dweller or being a division champ. He's the obvious choice from those three.

That's fine if you think Ovie should win, certainly a very strong case for it as without him they were not a playoff team at all. But everything you just said applies directly to Tavares as well, minus the div champ of course.

Sid when he was playing was also the best player in the league so a strong argument could be made for him as well.

All three are more than deserving of a nomination, while I personally think it should go to Tavares without hesitation regardless of who wins it, a great choice was made.

Sorry for picking on your post but I just can't understand how you could use that argument for Ovie and at the same time dismiss another nominee that accomplished much the same thing. Much less say it's an obvious choice. Whoever wins I imagine it will be quite close between the three.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Every single year, people come out with the argument that it is the most valuable TO THEIR TEAM and then parade out a player that helped their team scrape into the playoffs.

And every year, said player doesn't win it, but the best player in the league does.

Yeah, and until they change the definition we'll continue to have this discussion. Who I think should win the MVP award for their team is Tavares, who I think will win is Crosby.

And I know the perception seems to be that the Hart is more prestigious than the Lindsay but some of these writers who get to chose who wins are simply not qualified and I'm not just talking about bias (2002). These are the same guys who gave Harding a vote for the Calder trophy in 2007...when he started 3 games. I'll put much more stock into the Lindsay than Hart anyday of the week.

[Bootsy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Every single year, people come out with the argument that it is the most valuable TO THEIR TEAM and then parade out a player that helped their team scrape into the playoffs.

And every year, said player doesn't win it, but the best player in the league does.

The fact that your team is good without you, doesn't reduce your value as a player.

As others have pointed out, if it really did go to the player 'most valuable to his team' it would go to a goalie almost every year.

I hear what you are saying, believe me. And I used to make the same argument. But the fact of the matter is that each year, that player (the JT who carried his team into the playoffs) doesn't win. Each year, the best player wins.

And Crosby was the best player, whether he played all the games or not.

Except in 2002

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I'm not really surprised.

Tavares is the new Rick Nash.

Gets credit far beyond his accomplishments.

LOL

You do realize that last season the Islanders were about dead even with the Oilers in the standings?

One of those teams is constantly getting credit beyond their accomplishments for being handicapped a group of young talented players... guess which one it is?

Tavares put his team on his back and crawled them into the playoffs this season while the Oilers got gifted yet another top end prospect and still spiraled into further failure.

Oh the level of irony is dripping with that post.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Three former 1st overall picks.

/mildly interesting.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Crosby is from another planet.

[powderjunkie]

Crosby 1.56 PPG
Ovechkin 1.17 (5th)
Tavares .98 (29th)

Obviously there is a lot more too it than points, but it's obvious that Crosby excels in pretty much every other category too.

I don't think there is any question between Crosby and Ovechkin - I'd rather vote for a guy that missed 12 games due to injury, rather than a player that was invisible (if not a liability) for 15-20...

Crosby v. Tavares is different conversation. I lean towards Crosby, but would not object to Tavares.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Yeah, and until they change the definition we'll continue to have this discussion. Who I think should win the MVP award for their team is Tavares, who I think will win is Crosby.

And I know the perception seems to be that the Hart is more prestigious than the Lindsay but some of these writers who get to chose who wins are simply not qualified and I'm not just talking about bias (2002). These are the same guys who gave Harding a vote for the Calder trophy in 2007...when he started 3 games. I'll put much more stock into the Lindsay than Hart anyday of the week.

Agreed.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

LOL

You do realize that last season the Islanders were about dead even with the Oilers in the standings?

One of those teams is constantly getting credit beyond their accomplishments for being handicapped a group of young talented players... guess which one it is?

Tavares put his team on his back and crawled them into the playoffs this season while the Oilers got gifted yet another top end prospect and still spiraled into further failure.

Oh the level of irony is dripping with that post.

Looks to me like he had a pretty identical season stats wise. About a point per game.

They were 4-5-1 until Visnovsky joined the team. Maybe they should give the trophy to him. Guy led the team in +/-. Tavares was -2.

What about Nabokov playing 40 games out of 48 and putting up at least average numbers? Last season they had Montoya play almost 30 games and he was awful.

Did Tavares help improve their PK?

Did he improve their scoring depth ?

I think the improvement in the supporting cast helped the Islanders make the playoffs more then anything Tavares did. It makes for a better story though if Tavares gets all the credit.