Poll: "Do you believe in the current mgmt group"

[calumniate]

Another question: aside from what the CP consensus is, what do you think will happen? My guess is that everyone stays.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by calumniate

Another question: aside from what the CP consensus is, what do you think will happen? My guess is that everyone stays.

Everyone stays.

[DuffMan]

Is this the pre-emptive, I told you so thread, in case there is a bit more fail in the future.

I believe in them, as what I think will have no bearing on future events.

They've made the changes that everyone wanted, ie Iginla, Bouwmeister, and now people complain because they should've got back more?

People really have to understand that in the NHL like all sports it takes 2 parties to make a deal You can't just go around constantly fleecing everyone else.

The ROR thing seemed to take everyone by surprise, it wasn't like Feaster was the only one who didn't understand it. You'd think if it was so well known someone would've let him in on it.

That Kotalik dump has made his job a success.

[Poe969]

It's hard to say what will happen, I would have thought that they would dump some younger players for some "proven vets" in order to "win now" but the fact that they've already traded Iggy and JayBow shows that they're moving in a different direction. If they keep building for the future and don't make any really stupid moves, I could see them sticking around but if they do something dumb (trade away a prospect or pick for help now) I could see the fanbase forcing some kind of management move.

I would LOVE to see a complete change in management/coaching though. I do think a guy like Burke would be a good GM because of how he builds teams from the ground up and I'd want to see a newer coach with newer ideas come in. The time for change is upon us... it's started but how far will it go?

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by fotze

King and feaster probably are not be the problem, but maybe it would signal the ownership group has snapped out of it.

There has been a sea-change at the top of the heap, no doubt.

I think the ownership group were pretty scarred by the "Young Guns" experience and overly paranoid about avoiding it a second time, to the point where they'd believe anyone who came along promising a "re-build" without a dive to the bottom.

Interestingly, on CFR Radio a few weeks ago, even Robyn Regehr matter-of-factly stated ownership in Calgary waited "two to three years too long to clean house and start a re-build" (trade Iginla) and that it cost them in terms of rate of return and the length of time it may take to get back into the hunt.

Most could see that. Owners were in denial.

Cowperson

[CliffFletcher]

I don't think trades are the main job of an NHL GM today. I'd rank the most important traits as:

1) Overall management. Surrounding yourself with effective people who work well together.
2) Drafting and development.
3) Cap management.
4) Trades.

By that measure, I'd rank Feaster as on OK GM, with the potential to improve judging on how the youth develops over the next two seasons, and how he uses cap space next season.

[neo45]

I think both Feaster and King are smart guys, who besides from the ROR fiasco won't run this team into the ground.

I think there are better men for the job though. Especially when it comes to building the team to win a Stanley Cup

[Azhouse]

I voted no to both. I think that they both should have been fired after the ROR fiasco. I do like Weisbrod though.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by fotze

I think that viewpoint and how we carried out actions/trades/signings based on it was irrational. Not just a difference in opinion, but decidedly irrational. I think the belief the team was good is so irrational that not more than one or two people could have possibly held it and if they did, it was not an opinion they came to themselves, rather it was foisted upon them.

Definitely. It's almost unfathomable that six or seven smart hockey people all thought the Flames were close enough the last few seasons to keep an aging group together. It had to be a mandate from above. A combination of a stubborn Edwards, a delusional King, and the iconic status of Iginla was all it took for everyone else in the organization to hang their heads down and do what they were told, even though they didn't believe it was the right thing to do.

[Weiser Wonder]

It's tough when it comes to Feaster now. I'd like to say he should be fired, but if they were going to do it, before the trade deadline was the time. Now that you've let him handle the big trades, you might as well give him another year. I would be fine with Burke taking over though.

If King is meddling like he's rumored to be, I'd replace him right now.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

That Kotalik dump has made his job a success.

The Kotalik dump was one of his worst trades yet. He either gave up a 2nd round pick because he didn't want to pay Kotalik to play in Europe (owners fault), or he gave up a 2nd round pick for Paul Byron (depending on different accounts of the trade).

Either way either King or Feaster dropped the ball on that one

[Itse]

Originally Posted by calumniate

Another question: aside from what the CP consensus is, what do you think will happen? My guess is that everyone stays.

KK I have no comments on, but my guess is that Feaster pretty much used up what ever good faith the organization had in him. From now on he needs to show something good to his bosses at every garbage bag day. And he will not last another screwup, whether it's real or imagined by the media.

Basicly I'm thinking he'll last a year or two. Unless the organization really feels it wants Burke or another "big name" GM.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by fotze

I really, really want to know where the belief that this team was 'close' came from, these past many years. As much as Tinordi thinks he was the only one, I think most people here saw it, most people I have talked to saw it, most fans of other teams saw it, and most hockey commentaters saw it.

I think that viewpoint and how we carried out actions/trades/signings based on it was irrational. Not just a difference in opinion, but decidedly irrational. I think the belief the team was good is so irrational that not more than one or two people could have possibly held it and if they did, it was not an opinion they came to themselves, rather it was foisted upon them.

Believing this team was good and convincing others in the whole team could only have been done in one direction. i.e. if King or Feaster or Sutter believed this team was good, there is no way they could have convinced Edwards to go with what was done. The other way, totally.

I have seen completely confident, successful men turn into absolute p^%%ies when their boss walks in the room and will do whatever they are told to do.

It was obvious when Feaster was brought in, that this was a slap in the face of Sutter. He was being told that he hasn't been a good boy, they eventually brought in a guy that will do what he is told, plus the goodwill Sutter had earned due to the run was dried up by then, so no ownership backlash would come.

The problem is that the hockey world is the most secretive, closed world in sport. You do not speak out against ownership, ever, if you want to get a job anywhere near hockey ever again, its the way it has always been.

King and feaster probably are not be the problem, but maybe it would signal the ownership group has snapped out of it.

I've quoted several times that I believe ownership may be the problem, in particular, Murray Edwards.

[Tinordi]

I really, really want to know where the belief that this team was 'close' came from, these past many years. As much as Tinordi thinks he was the only one, I think most people here saw it, most people I have talked to saw it, most fans of other teams saw it, and most hockey commentaters saw it.

Hindsight bias, now that something has happened, it was obvious to all of us all along.

[calgARI]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I don't know. Did he turn the leafs around? They're a middle of the road team imo

That organization didn't just magically turn around. They are 5th in the East after a decade out of the playoffs. Some pretty radical personnel changes under Burke - who else would get the credit?

He also turned around Vancouver. Anaheim was good when he arrived and got them over the hump.

I personally think Burke did a lot more with Anaheim than Feaster did in Tampa but lets say the two situations are equal. Then Burke has successfully rebuilt two organizations from absolute zero. It isn't even close.

Burke has a proven track record with trades, drafting, and perhaps most importantly building legitimate organizational culture. He is everything the Flames need right now.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by fotze

I really, really want to know where the belief that this team was 'close' came from, these past many years. As much as Tinordi thinks he was the only one, I think most people here saw it, most people I have talked to saw it, most fans of other teams saw it, and most hockey commentaters saw it.

For sure it was emotional not purely rational, but I think when we yak about this stuff daily perspective on time gets skewed.

In 2008-2009 iginla was probably still the best forward in the game, kipper was great, and we had 2 all star d in Phanuef and bowmeester coming out of the summer. It was hardly a leap to think that team would do well.

In 2010 the wheels clearly fell off and the chain reaction started.
Sutter jumped the shark.
Feaster is brought in
2011 - Management, Drafting & development overhauled (has it worked? Too soon)
2012- Team starts gearing for the future but doesn't give up on present
2013- Team gutted, rebuild begins

Should that have taken 2 years instead of 3? Probably.

Could it have happened in 1 year? I doubt it.

[iggy4life]

Fire feaster, fire king

[SoulOfTheFlame]

I believe in Harvey Dent.

[Stay Golden]

Fire Feaster and King. Feaster has made the team smaller each season, went into this season with JMO 3 Centers only that is asking for a failure of a season. King never is held accountable for anything.
Fire King!!!

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I really fail to see how an arrogant, self-agrandizing blowhard is a perfect fit for anyone. No thanks to that circus sideshow.

Then you must be firmly on the "Fire Feaster" bandwagon as your description describes Jay perfectly.