The draft lottery is still a joke

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Unless we win it...

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

I liked the Fan 960 idea this morning to be honest.

The idea I think is this once a team is mathematically elimanted from the playoffs. Then the team with the most points accumulated between then and the end of the season gets the first pick and so on down the line.

For Example:

If Columbus were eliminated from the playoffs on game 60 then they would have game 61 - 82 to try and accumulate the most amount of points possible. Let's say that is 10 points.

If Edmonton were eliminated from the playoffs on game 72. Then they would have game 73 - 82 to try and accumulate the most amount of points possible. Let's say 5 points and came in 4th.

In this example Columbus picks first and then Team 2, Team 3, and then Edmonth 4th.

This would prevent the tanking theory, but it would still bring fans to the rink trying to cheer their team onto victory.

Also, I'd stop being a fan of the Edmonton Oilers, Carolina Hurricanes, Tampa Bay Lightning, Florida Panthers, Colorado Avalanche, Nashville Predators. It's too hard cheering for all these teams to win.

Would this actually remove tanking though? I mean sure it wont mean the team will want to tank once it's eliminated, but theres more motivation to tank and get mathematically eliminated early so you have the potential to earn more points. It's because of this I think my idea on page 3 is more tank proof

[CaptainCrunch]

If you want to get rid of tanking. You bring in the bottom 5 GM's and let them each select a grenade 3 of which are inactive, two of which are active.

They have to hold the grenades in their laps and pull the pin.

Stage two is a bare knuckle brawl to the death for the surviving three GM's

[Buff]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

The new draft lottery was supposed to help keep teams from purposely tanking.

Well tonight the Flames sit Stempniak, Backlund, Stajan, Cammalleri.

They are in tank mode and have been for at least the last 2 weeks, but the young guys just haven't got the memo.

Scratching those players is an embarrassment to the NHL in my opinion. In what other league would they not dress the best possible lineup? It really is a disservice to the fans who watch the game.

I am hoping we win every game to end the season. Rewarding such actions is just plain wrong.

We made fun of the Oilers for purposely tanking yet here we are dressing a lineup the ECHL might reject.

The lottery needs to be changed and I liked this post in the GDT




Every non playoff team should have an equal chance so gong shows like tonight don't happen. Nashville is also icing a pathetic lineup.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Would this actually remove tanking though? I mean sure it wont mean the team will want to tank once it's eliminated, but theres more motivation to tank and get mathematically eliminated early so you have the potential to earn more points.

Yes. This is valid.
Might only change the optics as the season winds down
The idea is a long way out there...

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Disagree. The evidence is in comparing leagues that have drafts to leagues that don't (most Soccer leagues). Far more parity exists in the North American sports that have lotteries as compared to the leagues that have no such mechanism.

Do those leagues also have a salary cap structure similar to the NHL/NFL/NBA? If not, then you can't compare them.

The draft system of rewarding failure has existed for 30 something years and there was no parity until the cap changes. I am not saying it should be a free for all, but I highly doubt giving all non-playoff teams an equal chance would diminish the current parity at all.

[Loyal and True]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Problem with all this icing the players when the games don't count is that next season when they do count we know most of them won't be playing. Hartley played the veteran players as much as possible right down to the very end until his boss told him they were going to play the kids. I can guarantee that next season any of these young players that do make the team will be on a very short leash getting few minutes.

What we have been witnessing over the past week or more is nothing but an illusion. It's like everyone forgot how little ice time Sven was getting earlier in the season or the quick cup of coffee Horak got while plugs like Comeau were getting as much ice time as Iginla gets on the Penguins. That's what we will see in October when the games count again.

I don't agree with the assumption that Hartley will play young players next year in the same manner as this year.

This year was clearly a "5 minutes to midnight" scenario with Iginla in the last year of his contract and JBouw/Kipper's 2nd last year. Now that has all dramatically changed.

[Hair bleach and Vodka]

They aren`t lying when they say they`re evaluating talent. ...It just coincides with the best possible chance of being horrible. These things aren`t in conflict at all.

I think the current system can certainly be abused (well, it`s a little better now after what the Coilers did) but the notion put forth on the FAN was a bit silly imo. I don`t think the league ever adopts such a policy.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Do those leagues also have a salary cap structure similar to the NHL? If not, then you can't compare them.

Excellent point.
Nevermind Euro football, MLB is pretty solid proof of this. Obviously there are exceptions, but the Yankees aren't there every year solely because they can draft.... It's because they have a payroll higher than the GDP of many developing nations.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If you want to get rid of tanking. You bring in the bottom 5 GM's and let them each select a grenade 3 of which are inactive, two of which are active.

They have to hold the grenades in their laps and pull the pin.

Stage two is a bare knuckle brawl to the death for the surviving three GM's

Love it but would prefer if the first GM who is killed in Stage two. Then the other two are placed in Madison Square Gardens in oppossing nets. One sword is set at center ice. We release lions and tigers with fricking laser beams and the survivor gets first pick overall.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Tanking is real.

Of course tanking is real. It is also easy and produces losses. Am I missing something?

Also, calling people out on holier than thou posts is pretty rich when you are posting in 30 point font in the GDT...

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Ummmm, they've been winning. Defeats the tanking argument 100%.

You mean the players are winning despite management trying to ice a team that loses. If you want to close your eyes to what is going on please do so but don't waste my time with posts that have no weight other than to disagree for the heck of it.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Of course tanking is real. It is also easy and produces losses. Am I missing something?

Also, calling people out on holier than thou posts is pretty rich when you are posting in 30 point font in the GDT...

Resolute is this your alternate account? Don't be shy now.

[Street Pharmacist]

There is no perfect system. In an effort to provide parity, lousy teams are given preferential treatment in an effort to make them better. The goal of this is to ensure all fans have something to cheer about and it, along with a level financial playing field have worked extremely well.

The unfortunate and unfair part is watching your rivals gain that preferential treatment for mismanagement. That's just the price of a balanced league though

[Hair bleach and Vodka]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You mean the players are winning despite management trying to ice a team that loses. If you want to close your eyes to what is going on please do so but don't waste my time with posts that have no weight other than to disagree for the heck of it.

I`m not sure how anyone can be blind to what management is doing. Sometimes it feels as though we`ve gone through the looking glass.

[azzarish]

Firstly, I think we are noticing 'tanking' a lot more this season because of 3 things:

- Our playoff hopes ended a long time ago
- We're in full out rebuild mode
- We all hoped to get a high draft pick this summer

All of the above has led us to keep a continuos interest in which teams are at the bottom of the league. Teams go on horrendous runs and find themselves in the basement before you can blink. It happens all the time. We've just been ignoring it because we've been a bubble team for about 5 years, and have been positioned in the middle of actually making the playoffs and being completely useless. This season, after Iggy and Bouwmeester were traded we started to lose a lot games, and quickly found ourselves in the bottom 3. Which meant we found ourselves almost competing with the teams around us.

Saying that, it is quite astonishing what is happening now that we've paid attention to it. I don't know for sure if tanking really exists but looking at the record of some teams you begin to really wonder. I like some of the ideas already mentioned in this thread, and I firmly believe there should be an incentive for teams that really are 'trying' to win. We've won 6 of our last 8, but it has significantly decreased our chances of a very high pick. While teams around us have continued losing and increased their chances of a high pick. So, in way other teams have jeopardized our chances, but then again we haven't been playing with that mindset. We haven't helped ourselves and neither has anyone around us. Saying that, we've just been going out to try and win every game so the notion of tanking (for us) is void to begin with.

As for the opening post, I don't think the Flames have purposely sat out veterans to tank. This is a good time as any to see some of these players and how they can perform at this level. Remember, a lot of them have points to prove as well, and are playing for jobs. If they were told they're in simply to enhance the teams chances of losing I don't think that helps their career progression at all.

I agree that the lottery needs to be adjusted in some way to deal with teams showing a lack of desire or competitiveness.

[ToraToraTora]

Just Hunger Games for the draft pick. Each team sends in a goon (or a massively overpaid washed up star), last survivor's team gets a draft pick.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You mean the players are winning despite management trying to ice a team that loses. If you want to close your eyes to what is going on please do so but don't waste my time with posts that have no weight other than to disagree for the heck of it.

By that argument the team was tanking when we traded our 2 best players for draft picks and prospects.

Rebuilding is not tanking. It's making the hard decisions now so the future doesn't suck.

Telling a team to go out and lose is tanking.

[Badgers Nose]

Bah, they are giving me what i want. No more lazy vets, good hockey and wins.

If they are tanking, they suck at it.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You mean the players are winning despite management trying to ice a team that loses. If you want to close your eyes to what is going on please do so but don't waste my time with posts that have no weight other than to disagree for the heck of it.

If the true goal was to lose, Irving would be in tonight and would have been in Minny as well. The Flames' two hottest players are Macdonald and Kipper. Also, telling a bunch of young, hungry, capable players that they are playing for their futures and that winning is expected is not the way to tank. The way to tank is to do nothing, demonstrate apathy, and have that apathy modeled.