[News] Flames sign Reto Berra

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

They sure can. But we have four spots available for goalies. Brossoit isn't going back to junior. Ortio is make or break this year. Berra and Ramo are not going to the ahl, and the team isn't carrying three goalies.

Vets will be very necessary in the rebuild. Joey Mac is probably expendable.

I'm not saying to keep Mac at any cost or anything, just saying it shouldn't be outright dismissed on the premise that he is a veteran alone.

Also Ortio is likely to play in Finalnd again, I am pretty sure I remember hearing his deal with his finish club he signed last summer was for 2 years. I also think the Flames will qualify him in June of next year, he doesn't accept and ends up doing like Ramo and playing for years in Europe as a RFA. I doubt we will see him on North American ice before he is 25 or 26.

So in my mind we have an open spot in North America is Kipper does in fact retire. And there is no reason to think Berra won't spend some time in the AHL to start the year, in fact it makes sense to give him and Ramo both ample opportunity to start for the first couple months at least to adjust to the angles of the game and I doubt Ramo would clear waivers if demoted, while Berra will have 1 year of being waiver exempt.

So I am thinking the same as Devo to start the year.

Flames: Ramo & Mac
Heat: Berra & Brossoit

If Berra plays really well then we waive Mac and demote him if we can.

[Textcritic]

^
That looks sensible to me.

We need to remember that as the Flames enter this cycle of rebuilding, there will be some "transitional" positions while the building process occurs, and the most likely of these is in net. I am not convinced that either Berra or Ramo is a long-term solution in goal, and I suspect that the Flames aren't either. At this point, the long-term plan seems to be on developing Gillies, and the hope that in three to four years he will be ready to join an emerging contending team as an emerging NHL starter. I certainly hope that one or both of Ramo and Berra play well and prove that they are NHL goalies, but I won't lose much sleep at all if they prove to be little more than stop-gaps.

This is a process.

[Textcritic]

I moved this over from the closed Kari Ramo thread.

Originally Posted by kyuss275

While i don't think this guy has any clue if he is signed or not, i do believe that Ramo will sign on May 1st. The only question is how much money will Feaster give Ramo? My prediction is that Ramo gets $2 million a season for 2 years one way. To much for a guy that has not played in the NHL in years.

Heading into next season, I don't see this as an issue at all. In actual fact, the Flames will likely need to be somewhat creative to fill out their roster next year and to ensure that they are cap compliant. If Ramo is overpaid for a couple of years, this really doesn't do anything to hurt the Flames, who are likely not competing for a playoff spot for another two years or more.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

^
That looks sensible to me.

We need to remember that as the Flames enter this cycle of rebuilding, there will be some "transitional" positions while the building process occurs, and the most likely of these is in net. I am not convinced that either Berra or Ramo is a long-term solution in goal, and I suspect that the Flames aren't either. At this point, the long-term plan seems to be on developing Gillies, and the hope that in three to four years he will be ready to join an emerging contending team as an emerging NHL starter. I certainly hope that one or both of Ramo and Berra play well and prove that they are NHL goalies, but I won't lose much sleep at all if they prove to be little more than stop-gaps.

This is a process.

Excellent post.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

I think Berra & Ramo are going to be the Flames attempt to find a diamond in the rough so to speak while their prized goaltending prospects continue developing. I think Gillies is the guy they are looking to, much like yourself. But I also think they have high hopes from Brossoit too and are hoping for a 1a/1b situation down the line with these 2.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Excellent post.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

I think Berra & Ramo are going to be the Flames attempt to find a diamond in the rough so to speak while their prized goaltending prospects continue developing. I think Gillies is the guy they are looking to, much like yourself. But I also think they have high hopes from Brossoit too and are hoping for a 1a/1b situation down the line with these 2.

I mentioned only Gillies, because I think he has the highest potential, but you are of course correct to note that there are others in the system that the Flames undoubtedly are also monitering closely in hopes of future development. We should also not count out Otio, who really showed some great promise after he was drafted. The key to the Flames's plans for goalie development seems to be having LOTS of prospects staggered over a longer period of time in hopes that they can just continually cycle them through.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The key to the Flames's plans for goalie development seems to be having LOTS of prospects staggered over a longer period of time in hopes that they can just continually cycle them through.

If that's true... S##T

[Vulcan]

I think we should re-sign MacDonald. As it stands I think our goalie depth is

1. Kiprusoff - not sure if coming back

2. Ramo- should be here and should be on the Flames

3. MacDonald - NHL capable and if Kipper doesn't return, can be decent fill in. If Kipper returns he can fight for the backup position or be waived and or sent down. Great to have for injury insurance.

4. Berra - Unproven and needs time to adjust to NA ice. Probably play for the Heat.

5. Ortio - Not sure what our plans for him are but can either play for the Heat or go back to Finland. He may have signed in Finland but his NHL contract should take precedence.

6. Brossoit - Depending on who returns, he can play for the Heat or in Utah. Their is no shame in a graduating junior goalie playing in the ECHL.

7. Taylor - I don't see any room for him but he's shown he's a very good AHL goalie and may still have a future.

8. Irving - No room for him either. I feel bad for him, bad breaks and inconsistent. May still have a future as he has shown he can be good.

[kyuss275]

I think the flames should wait on MacDonald. I don't see a market for him and he will probably be looking for a job in September. Go with Ramo and Berra for camp and if Berra can't handle it, sign MacDonald or another veteran then.

If Feaster does re-sign him before July 5th i hope he does not pay any more than league minimum.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FAN

If that's true... S##T

Perhaps you misunderstand me? When I say "cycle them through", this is merely a practical recognition that most of the Flames' goaltending prospects—like ALL goaltending prospects—will never establish themselves at the NHL level. I am suggesting that the Flames seem to be doing their best to play the odds by ensuring that they are regularly stocked with several goaltenders at various stages in their development. This is actually a very good plan.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I think we should re-sign MacDonald. As it stands I think our goalie depth is

1. Kiprusoff - not sure if coming back

2. Ramo- should be here and should be on the Flames

3. MacDonald - NHL capable and if Kipper doesn't return, can be decent fill in. If Kipper returns he can fight for the backup position or be waived and or sent down. Great to have for injury insurance.

4. Berra - Unproven and needs time to adjust to NA ice. Probably play for the Heat.

5. Ortio - Not sure what our plans for him are but can either play for the Heat or go back to Finland. He may have signed in Finland but his NHL contract should take precedence.

6. Brossoit - Depending on who returns, he can play for the Heat or in Utah. Their is no shame in a graduating junior goalie playing in the ECHL.

7. Taylor - I don't see any room for him but he's shown he's a very good AHL goalie and may still have a future.

8. Irving - No room for him either. I feel bad for him, bad breaks and inconsistent. May still have a future as he has shown he can be good.

Did you forget Gillies? Where does he figure in this list?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Did you forget Gillies? Where does he figure in this list?

I'm concerned with the immediate goalie situation. Gillies won't be available for at least a year.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

^
That looks sensible to me.

We need to remember that as the Flames enter this cycle of rebuilding, there will be some "transitional" positions while the building process occurs, and the most likely of these is in net. I am not convinced that either Berra or Ramo is a long-term solution in goal, and I suspect that the Flames aren't either. At this point, the long-term plan seems to be on developing Gillies, and the hope that in three to four years he will be ready to join an emerging contending team as an emerging NHL starter. I certainly hope that one or both of Ramo and Berra play well and prove that they are NHL goalies, but I won't lose much sleep at all if they prove to be little more than stop-gaps.

This is a process.

This is exactly my view as well.

I am not overly concerned with the goaltending for the next season or two - let's try these guys, and see what we've got while the real prospects (Gillies and Brossoit) continue to develop.

To teh poster that said this is a make or break year for Ortio... what? He is 22 years old. He is only now beginning to enter the ring as a prospect for the Flames. Let's see what he does for the next three seasons before we have to make any decisions.

[Canada 02]

KHL playoffs just ended (Wed). Can Ramo sign now?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

KHL playoffs just ended (Wed). Can Ramo sign now?

Not until the end of the month I believe

[Enoch Root]

unless his team gave him permission

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by devo22

Berra, Ortio and Brossoit have a combined 10 pro games in North America and Ramo hasn't played in North America since 2009 ... in my opinion, that's too much uncertainty. I'd rather have a known commodity like MacDonald, just to be safe.

I don't really understand the fear that seems to be invoked when people think about a Ramo/Berra tandem. CP has been demanding rebuilding the team and moving toward youth for years and then all of the sudden freak out at the idea of passing the torch to two young goalies during our first full rebuild season.

If Kipper does not retire then I would definitely go with the plan of Berra in the AHL and allow Kipper to play for the rebuilding team and steal games that Ramo, Berra or MacDonald would likely lose. But if Kipper does retire, I do not think MacDonald brings anything special that will keep the Flames out of 30th place next season. At that point I think you just take a deep breath and let go.

This is the exact time where the Flames should be experimenting with uncertainty and changing their mentality with regard to signing veterans to fill roster spots. Ramo/Berra could alternate starts for the first half of the season. If you need to play favorites with them then Ramo should probably take the harder games (Hawks, Ducks, etc) and leave Berra the easier games (Avs, Oilers, Preds).

If we get to Xmas and the Ramo/Berra tandem is in some way hurting the organization then I would go out and find another goalie.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Wolven

I don't really understand the fear that seems to be invoked when people think about a Ramo/Berra tandem. CP has been demanding rebuilding the team and moving toward youth for years and then all of the sudden freak out at the idea of passing the torch to two young goalies during our first full rebuild season.

If Kipper does not retire then I would definitely go with the plan of Berra in the AHL and allow Kipper to play for the rebuilding team and steal games that Ramo, Berra or MacDonald would likely lose. But if Kipper does retire, I do not think MacDonald brings anything special that will keep the Flames out of 30th place next season. At that point I think you just take a deep breath and let go.

This is the exact time where the Flames should be experimenting with uncertainty and changing their mentality with regard to signing veterans to fill roster spots. Ramo/Berra could alternate starts for the first half of the season. If you need to play favorites with them then Ramo should probably take the harder games (Hawks, Ducks, etc) and leave Berra the easier games (Avs, Oilers, Preds).

If we get to Xmas and the Ramo/Berra tandem is in some way hurting the organization then I would go out and find another goalie.

Well one issue is that goalies can sometimes have a little adjustment period to the North American sized ice. It could be bad to have them both adjusting early in the NHL season unless we're intentionally trying to tank.

The bigger problem with playing two young goalies who might not be ready is that if the team isn't getting timely saves from them it may affect the confidence and development of any young defensemen on the team. That is a risk that might not be worth taking.

Then there's the issue that if one of them gets injured suddenly we're going with an even more inexperienced duo.

MacDonald is a capable goalie, wouldn't come at a high price and could be waived if he wasn't needed. If Kipper retires he's a good option to go with until Berra and Ramo are both ready be that at the start of the season, mid-season or the season after.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

The bigger problem with playing two young goalies who might not be ready is that if the team isn't getting timely saves from them it may affect the confidence and development of any young defensemen on the team. That is a risk that might not be worth taking.

I think we are just going to have to hope that our D are mentally stronger than that. Even with MacDonald here we are not going to be receiving elite goaltending by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, if our main concern is avoiding bad goaltending from hurting the confidence of the young players, why would we want Berra on the Heat bringing our farm team down? It would make more sense to re-sign Taylor to be the #1 on the farm and have Berra riding the pine behind Ramo.

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Then there's the issue that if one of them gets injured suddenly we're going with an even more inexperienced duo

That would still be the case with MacDonald here, especially if he is the one injured. No matter who gets hurt though the person that fills in will be less experienced. Unless we go outside of the organization.

[cannon7]

Spoke to a Swiss friend of mine who has seen Berra play many times. Says he has carried his team the past couple seasons, his stats reflect a weak team. Says he's a very good goalie by Swiss terms, plays well under pressure. But he doesn't think that Berra is an NHL calibre goaltender. Guess we'll see.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

When I say "cycle them through", this is merely a practical recognition that most of the Flames' goaltending prospects—like ALL goaltending prospects—will never establish themselves at the NHL level. I am suggesting that the Flames seem to be doing their best to play the odds by ensuring that they are regularly stocked with several goaltenders at various stages in their development. This is actually a very good plan.

I think that is a terrible plan, especially for a team with little success at drafting and developing goalies. You want to draft the best prospect available. It would be foolish to draft a goaltender because the team needed a goaltender in an earlier stage of development. And presumably, the team's scouting is good enough to recognize early on which goaltending prospects will never establish themselves at the NHL level so that the team doesn't waste time and resources developing him. It's like letting go of Joey Leach. Obviously our management and scouts weren't high on him so the team let him go. You can't go thinking "well we don't have Erixon... Brodie will be up in the NHL, Ramage is still in college, we need a guy in the AHL his age so let's sign him."

Furthermore, goaltenders often take years to develop and they need to play. It's not uncommon for even the top goalie prospects to spend at least two years in the AHL. You really don't need more than one guy to groom in the AHL for 2-3 years because you want your top goalie prospect getting the majority of the games (2 is not a problem, 3 is a crowd). Some goalies also get burried in a team's system and don't respond well when they are constantly looking over their shoulders.