Talked Flames with Pierre McGuire.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

All 29 other teams have a Gaudreau in their system. If you look at the % of players that make it to the NHL depending on what round they were drafted, its a significant drop off from round 1 to round 2.

Absolutely ridiculous. Every team might have a small, skilled player, but how many of them are putting up 50+ points in college as a sophomore? How many are winning individual awards left and right?

Gaudreau alone would be the top prospect on the Sharks, Canucks, Devils, and Flyers.

[#-3]

All this talk of Gaudreau's trade value is stupid, either way you look at it

His Value to Calgary > NHL trade value.
Meaning he will not be traded.


A good example of Trade value not equalling a players value to the team is Ramo, Montreal basically traded him to us for a 2nd. His trade value was higher that his value to the team, because he is older than their starter who is already at the top of the league, and he was not coming to North America in the next couple years.

Calgary would not think of trading him for a 2nd, because there is about a 50% chance he will be our starter sometime in the next 2 years. Neither the 31st or 60th pick will ever get you a goaltender who is NHL ready.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Wronskian

I'm indifferent to Jankowski, I still can't believe we passed on TT at 14 though. Lets everyone be perfectly honest, if the Oilers or Canucks made the Jankowski pick at 23 (or whatever it was), we'd be laughing at them.

Evidently other teams saw what Calgary saw, and passed on him at 14, 15, 16 and 17 as well. Tom Wilson, a RW, was even chosen at 16 over TT.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Absolutely ridiculous. Every team might have a small, skilled player, but how many of them are putting up 50+ points in college as a sophomore? How many are winning individual awards left and right?

Gaudreau alone would be the top prospect on the Sharks, Canucks, Devils, and Flyers.

Just because he would end up being top prospect on some teams does not make him a blue chip prospect with high value. Gaudreau could not garner a 1st + at this moment.

Look at the 2 guys that the flames got in the Iggy trade. They seem to be ranked high on the flames prospect list but i doubt that makes them worth 2nd rounders.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Just because he would end up being top prospect on some teams does not make him a blue chip prospect with high value. Gaudreau could not garner a 1st + at this moment.

Look at the 2 guys that the flames got in the Iggy trade. They seem to be ranked high on the flames prospect list but i doubt that makes them worth 2nd rounders.

When did I say Gaudreau was a blue chip prospect?

And since when do only blue chip prospects return first round picks?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by neo45

Well they took Gaunce and Mitch Moroz right after Janko so I was already laughing at them

For the record I think the Jankowski pick is a great one

Like I said it was a terrible draft. Gaunce and Moroz are both longshots to make the NHL.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Gaudreau alone would be the top prospect on the Sharks, Canucks, Devils, and Flyers.

Not sure about that. I feel some fans are overvaluing Gaudreau here.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Gaudreau is probably worth a late 1st rounder. But he's not a blue-chipper by any stretch of the imagination. The dude needs to gain 40 pounds before he reaches Fleury's or St. Louis' playing weight. 40 pounds. He's still a long-shot to make it as an NHLer.

Fleury was MAYBE 180 pounds with his gear on.
Gaudreau is at roughly 165 with his gear on.

[Swayze11]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Absolutely ridiculous. Every team might have a small, skilled player, but how many of them are putting up 50+ points in college as a sophomore? How many are winning individual awards left and right?

Gaudreau alone would be the top prospect on the Sharks, Canucks, Devils, and Flyers.

Yup, putting up points in COLLEGE. How many college free agents have panned out? I think there is a thread on it someone where on the forum.

Lets take a look at the last few Hobey Baker winners:
Drew LeBlanc - wasn't drafted. Signed as a free agent, way too early to make judgement.
Jack Connolly - Got a few sniffs as a free agent in the NHL. Signed in sweeden.
Andy Miele - The prized free agent everyone wanted. Got a few NHL games, seems to be putting up decent numbers in the AHL. Like the above, maybe a little to early to judge. Similar size to Johnny.
Blake Geoffrion - 2nd rounder on the Preds. Unfortunately had to retire due to a serious head injury. Can't make a comparison.
Matt Gilroy - The next prized college free agent. Outstanding COLLEGE stats. Looks like a depth d-man at the NHL level.
Kevin Porter - Regular NHLer. Unreal college stats. Career 4th line depth player.
Ryan Duncan - who?
Matt Carle - A solid d-man. The only really noteworthy player in the last 10 years to win the Hobey.

Again, I am not at all saying hes a bust and we should get whatever we can for him and we probably shouldn't trade him, it doesn't make sense. My point is if someone offers you a 1st round pick for him, you take it and run.

I think at the very least you are undervaluing late 1st round picks, especially in this years draft.

[Calgary4LIfe]

This is just further proof as to why Pierre isn't a GM.

At anyways, I will always compared TT with Jankowski. So far, I like that comparison, seeing as TT is still a ways away, and is looking more like a winger. Both of them are projects - but the Flames picked the guy who is 4"(or more) taller and translates into a more likely center.

Pierre... lol

[valo403]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

No, I'm really not. He called it an amazing pick, then stated it would take a while to pay off. Something that I agree with.

Now it's a bad pick?

Sure.

He called an amazing pick based on completely different reasoning. It was amazing, he was completely off the board and out of high school. That doesn't happen often. That it did is amazing. The word can be used in different ways, by not providing context you're skewing his remarks.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Yup, putting up points in COLLEGE. How many college free agents have panned out? I think there is a thread on it someone where on the forum.

Lets take a look at the last few Hobey Baker winners:
Drew LeBlanc - wasn't drafted. Signed as a free agent, way too early to make judgement.
Jack Connolly - Got a few sniffs as a free agent in the NHL. Signed in sweeden.
Andy Miele - The prized free agent everyone wanted. Got a few NHL games, seems to be putting up decent numbers in the AHL. Like the above, maybe a little to early to judge. Similar size to Johnny.
Blake Geoffrion - 2nd rounder on the Preds. Unfortunately had to retire due to a serious head injury. Can't make a comparison.
Matt Gilroy - The next prized college free agent. Outstanding COLLEGE stats. Looks like a depth d-man at the NHL level.
Kevin Porter - Regular NHLer. Unreal college stats. Career 4th line depth player.
Ryan Duncan - who?
Matt Carle - A solid d-man. The only really noteworthy player in the last 10 years to win the Hobey.

Again, I am not at all saying hes a bust and we should get whatever we can for him and we probably shouldn't trade him, it doesn't make sense. My point is if someone offers you a 1st round pick for him, you take it and run.

I think at the very least you are undervaluing late 1st round picks, especially in this years draft.

Completely ignore that fact that Gaudreau was more than 4 years younger than almost every single one of those players at the time.

[Mass_nerder]

I like Pierre. He's interesting to listen to, even if he is a little over the top sometimes.
He reminds me a bit of a cartoon character.
I can imagine he wouldn't get much respect from the rest of the GMs if he ever got back into an NHL management position.

[_Q_]

I think the strategy with the Jankowski pick was to take a guy with huge potential that hopefully pans out. I think Terravainen, might one day top out as a 2nd line guy, but is more of a sure thing to play in the NHL where as Jankowski can possibly top out as a franchise centre or be a career minor leaguer.

I like the pick because of that.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Gaudreau is probably worth a late 1st rounder. But he's not a blue-chipper by any stretch of the imagination. The dude needs to gain 40 pounds before he reaches Fleury's or St. Louis' playing weight. 40 pounds. He's still a long-shot to make it as an NHLer.

Gaudreau is listed at 5'8, 153 right now. Steve Sullivan is listed at 5'8', 161. Sullivan played at this weight or less his entire career, all 1,006 games of it. Size is not much of a factor for some players. Gaudreau appears to be one of those guys.

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Gaudreau is probably worth a late 1st rounder. But he's not a blue-chipper by any stretch of the imagination. The dude needs to gain 40 pounds before he reaches Fleury's or St. Louis' playing weight. 40 pounds. He's still a long-shot to make it as an NHLer.

25 pounds - Gaudreau is 155 versus Fleury and St. Louis at 180. He undoubtedly needs to keep putting on weight but there's no need to exaggerate it by comparing his draft weight from a couple years ago.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/john_gaudreau/

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/20...szO/story.html

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by valo403

He called an amazing pick based on completely different reasoning. It was amazing, he was completely off the board and out of high school. That doesn't happen often. That it did is amazing. The word can be used in different ways, by not providing context you're skewing his remarks.

You should watch the video I posted again then. The first quote you can chalk it up to what you're suggesting but certainly not the "Amazing pick" quote at 1:40. At that point he is talking strictly about the player.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Yup, putting up points in COLLEGE. How many college free agents have panned out? I think there is a thread on it someone where on the forum.

Lets take a look at the last few Hobey Baker winners:
Drew LeBlanc - wasn't drafted. Signed as a free agent, way too early to make judgement.
Jack Connolly - Got a few sniffs as a free agent in the NHL. Signed in sweeden.
Andy Miele - The prized free agent everyone wanted. Got a few NHL games, seems to be putting up decent numbers in the AHL. Like the above, maybe a little to early to judge. Similar size to Johnny.
Blake Geoffrion - 2nd rounder on the Preds. Unfortunately had to retire due to a serious head injury. Can't make a comparison.
Matt Gilroy - The next prized college free agent. Outstanding COLLEGE stats. Looks like a depth d-man at the NHL level.
Kevin Porter - Regular NHLer. Unreal college stats. Career 4th line depth player.
Ryan Duncan - who?
Matt Carle - A solid d-man. The only really noteworthy player in the last 10 years to win the Hobey.

Again, I am not at all saying hes a bust and we should get whatever we can for him and we probably shouldn't trade him, it doesn't make sense. My point is if someone offers you a 1st round pick for him, you take it and run.

I think at the very least you are undervaluing late 1st round picks, especially in this years draft.

LOL. Are you seriously trying to convince us that College doesn't produce good NHLers? You think listing the players who've won the Hobey Baker in any way proves that College doesn't produce elite NHLers?

Toews
Vanek
Suter
Parise
Kesler
Zajac
Schneider
J. Johnson
Oshie
Kessel
Van Riemsdyk
Turris
McDonagh
Shattenkirk
Wilson
Gardiner
E. Johnson

That's a short list of some of the players developed in College in the last decade.

Trying to downplay Gaudreau because he is excelling in College is one of the stupidest arguments I've heard.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Yup, putting up points in COLLEGE. How many college free agents have panned out? I think there is a thread on it someone where on the forum.

Lets take a look at the last few Hobey Baker winners:
Drew LeBlanc - wasn't drafted. Signed as a free agent, way too early to make judgement.
Jack Connolly - Got a few sniffs as a free agent in the NHL. Signed in sweeden.
Andy Miele - The prized free agent everyone wanted. Got a few NHL games, seems to be putting up decent numbers in the AHL. Like the above, maybe a little to early to judge. Similar size to Johnny.
Blake Geoffrion - 2nd rounder on the Preds. Unfortunately had to retire due to a serious head injury. Can't make a comparison.
Matt Gilroy - The next prized college free agent. Outstanding COLLEGE stats. Looks like a depth d-man at the NHL level.
Kevin Porter - Regular NHLer. Unreal college stats. Career 4th line depth player.
Ryan Duncan - who?
Matt Carle - A solid d-man. The only really noteworthy player in the last 10 years to win the Hobey.

Again, I am not at all saying hes a bust and we should get whatever we can for him and we probably shouldn't trade him, it doesn't make sense. My point is if someone offers you a 1st round pick for him, you take it and run.

I think at the very least you are undervaluing late 1st round picks, especially in this years draft.

You've conveniently ignored that of all of those guys only Ryan Duncan was a Sophomore, every other player was a Senior with the exception of Carle, who was a Junior. It is an award dominated by Seniors, the fact Gaudreau was a finalist as a Sophomore is huge. Trading him for a late 1st would be simply stupid.

[Swayze11]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

LOL. Are you seriously trying to convince us that College doesn't produce good NHLers? You think listing the players who've won the Hobey Baker in any way proves that College doesn't produce elite NHLers?

That's a short list of some of the players developed in College in the last decade.

Trying to downplay Gaudreau because he is excelling in College is one of the stupidest arguments I've heard.

Not one bit am I saying that at all. You may need to re-read it or read what we have been discussing.

edit: to add to that, I actually value the NCAA very highly in regards to developing players.