What is Wrong with People

[polak]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Of course, *I* find 97% of rapists never seeing jail time disgusting and terrifying.

I don't think there is a happy answer. The vigilanties want to get these boys and damn if one of them happens to be innocent - to bad so sad. The "let the police and legal system do their job" are okay with 97% of rapists getting away with their crime. Either scenario just makes me think that Rehtaeh *must* be in a better place because this one just sucks.

No.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Of course, *I* find 97% of rapists never seeing jail time disgusting and terrifying.

I don't think there is a happy answer. The vigilanties want to get these boys and damn if one of them happens to be innocent - to bad so sad. The "let the police and legal system do their job" are okay with 97% of rapists getting away with their crime. Either scenario just makes me think that Rehtaeh *must* be in a better place because this one just sucks.

Are you serious? Too bad so sad? Do you have any idea what you are advocating? Seriously, give your head a shake.

[Devils'Advocate]

Are you reading what I wrote or are you just finding a reason to be indignant? Read what I wrote... The idea of too bad so sad is the opinion of the vigilantes out there. of which I don't count myself as one, but you seemed to have thrown me in that camp out of convenience.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Are you reading what I wrote or are you just finding a reason to be indignant? Read what I wrote... The idea of too bad so sad is the opinion of the vigilantes out there. of which I don't count myself as one, but you seemed to have thrown me in that camp out of convenience.

Your whole premise is flawed.

There is a happy answer. Let the freakin' courts do their job.

[Devils'Advocate]

But the statistics show that "letting the courts do their job" means that the vast majority of rapists go completely unpunished. maybe you are happy with that. I am not.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Are you reading what I wrote or are you just finding a reason to be indignant? Read what I wrote... The idea of too bad so sad is the opinion of the vigilantes out there. of which I don't count myself as one, but you seemed to have thrown me in that camp out of convenience.

Well you do a pretty poor job of distancing yourself from that stance if you're actually against it.

Why do you think there are only 2 options? It's not 'too bad so sad' or 'ok with 97% of rapists getting away with it'.

You're showing incredibly narrow thinking.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

But the statistics show that "letting the courts do their job" means that the vast majority of rapists go completely unpunished. maybe you are happy with that. I am not.

Well then you advocate for reform, you don't say 'oh well let these trolls take care of it'.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

But the statistics show that "letting the courts do their job" means that the vast majority of rapists go completely unpunished. maybe you are happy with that. I am not.

The problem isn't the courts, it's whatever causes victims to not come forward. Ruining the lives of innocent people isn't going to make that any better. It's not trade off. Very "police state" thinking you have in your head.

It's not like 97% of cases go to court where the rapists are let off unjustly.

[Devils'Advocate]

Did you read my initial post in this thread?

Of the cases that are reported only 7% get a conviction. And even less end in jail time due to plea agreements and suspended sentences. THAT is what you get with "letting the courts handle it".

[monkeyman]

there are enough people who know the boys in question. they apparently circulated a picture and openly bragged about it. naming the wrong individuals in this incident seems highly unlikely and I'm sure the family/police would be quick to point out the error. but I'm kind of on the side of posting the names. these scum apparently had no issue taking advantage of a drunk 15 year old and circulating a picture while openly bragging about it. they should be held to their own actions. the RCMP said to the parents that it was a community issue. so now let the community judge them for their actions. they are more than welcome to come forward and present their side of the story are they not? if they feel they did nothing wrong coming forward shouldn't be an issue. the fact that they won't come forward tends to support that they know what they did wasn't morally right if nothing else. society can judge them on that.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Did you read my initial post in this thread?

Of the cases that are reported only 7% get a conviction. And even less end in jail time due to plea agreements and suspended sentences. THAT is what you get with "letting the courts handle it".

Oh so now we completely disregard the judical ruiling of the courts.

You know that just because someone says they were raped, doesn't actually mean they were raped right?

[Flamenspiel]

Specifically to the topic of this case, it really smells like a coverup, were the boys "connected"? If they are in some way being protected, it's the type of thing that the Anons could play a constructive role in. I m not a conspiracy guy, but this case is just very odd.

I don't really buy into the Anton's political crusades as its just a point of view, in this case it's a matter of justice. They should raise hell until there is an inquiry.

[polak]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

these scum apparently had no issue taking advantage of a drunk 15 year old and circulating a picture while openly bragging about it. .

"Taking advantage of a drunk 15 year old girl"



Yes cause anyone who ever did anything in highschool with a girl who was drunk was "taking advantage of her" and deserves to be branded a rapist...

Girls do stupid s**t on their own too you know.

Circulating a picture was wrong of them but that is not rape and regardless, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Did you read my initial post in this thread?

Of the cases that are reported only 7% get a conviction. And even less end in jail time due to plea agreements and suspended sentences. THAT is what you get with "letting the courts handle it".

Again, advocate for reform.

Btw, you are massively misrepresenting the facts here. I'm not sure what source you're looking at, but according to RAINN (Rape Abuse & Incest National Network) "[i]f there is a prosecution, there is a 58% chance of a felony conviction" and "[i]f there is a felony conviction, there is a 69% chance the convict will spend time in jail." Let's at least stick to being honest.

Source: http://www.rainn.org/get-information...ishing-rapists

[polak]

Originally Posted by valo403

Again, advocate for reform.

Btw, you are massively misrepresenting the facts here. I'm not sure what source you're looking at, but according to RAINN (Rape Abuse & Incest National Network) "[i]f there is a prosecution, there is a 58% chance of a felony conviction" and "[i]f there is a felony conviction, there is a 69% chance the convict will spend time in jail." Let's at least stick to being honest.

Source: http://www.rainn.org/get-information...ishing-rapists

I personally like how the vigilantie side like to throw around those stats seem and assume that 42% of the time the court was wrong, because "How could someone possibly be accused of rape and be innocent! Lock them up and throw away the key the moment the victim points them out!!"

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Oh geez louise, I don't even know where to start with the volumes of wrong this post is.

You know there is a reason the law and society has made ~18 the point at which you are an adult, not 13, not 15, not 16, but 18. The amount of ######ed and peer pressured things most of us did at 15 is a testament to this. I don't care if "their personalities" are "established" at 15, they're still young enough to not be fully understanding of their actions and potential ramifications. Juvenile laws exist for a reason.

You have no idea if she begged for the sexytime and then felt ashamed, you have no idea if there were 12 guns behind the camera forcing them to do this, you have no idea if these were lifesize cutouts of them and her, maybe they were all on PCP and mushrooms, or were being held by Al Qaeda. There are so many things unknown in this case, jumping to conclusions like you're doing is as ridiculous as the number of situations I could come up with.

Sure you might be right, but some girl making a rash decision to end her own life doesn't give everyone the right to ruin other people's at will.

Lets separate some things here, mainly the name of the four youths, and whether or not it was rape or as you put it sexy time. The fact that the province is going to investigate the investigation is good enough for me, I think there has to be some oversight into police investigations for serious crimes. Lately the Police and RCMP don't have a sparkling record in terms of investigation.

However to me and I know this is going to run counter to a lot of opinions. In terms of rape, violent crimes and violent sexual crimes. Things like peer pressure are irrelevant, everyone knows that those type of crimes are or should be at the high end of no excuse punishment. Allowing people to hide behind the defense that "I was stoned", or "my friends would make fun of me if I didn't do it" are to me irrelevant. If you are that easily swayed, if your personality is willing to allow you do these horrible things then you are incredibly dangerous to society and need to be removed from it until you are not a danger.

Lets separate things a little more, your statement at the end makes it sound like the Rapists caused her death. That's a little simple isn't it. It was more the internet tough guys, and bullies and psychos that caused her death with 2 years of a soul crushing campaign. That's a whole other level of scumbagery, and after thinking about it, really Anonymous should be going after them. However Anonymous is very much a group of loose canon internet bullies.

I know that there are questions about the rape, and hopefully an oversight investigation into the RCMP investigation will lay things bare and maybe change things for the better.

I'm equally concerned about the culture of Internet bullying to the point where people take their lives. Social Media has become a mixed bag for me. In the wrong hands its become as deadly as any gun out there.

The facebooks and twitters of the world have to do a better job of monitoring this stuff and putting an end to it. They are now the most common media for bullying out there.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by polak

"Taking advantage of a drunk 15 year old girl"



Yes cause anyone who ever did anything in highschool with a girl who was drunk was "taking advantage of her" and deserves to be branded a rapist...

Girls do stupid s**t on their own too you know.

Circulating a picture was wrong of them but that is not rape and regardless, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

Just to put it out there, if the girl is drunk its still rape if she can't give formed consent.

Just because she's loaded and not thinking straight dosen't give you the right to $$$$ her. There's no such thing as implied consent.

[polak]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Just to put it out there, if the girl is drunk its still rape if she can't give formed consent.

Just because she's loaded and not thinking straight dosen't give you the right to $$$$ her. There's no such thing as implied consent.

I don't think thats true. At what point is she "too drunk?"

[valo403]

Originally Posted by polak

I don't think thats true. At what point is she "too drunk?"

It certainly is true. She's too drunk when she can't give informed consent, it's not a matter of a BAC.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by polak

I don't think thats true. At what point is she "too drunk?"

In most of the things that I've read, and I'm not a freaking lawyer, but when she can't make an informed decision to she was incoherent.

The problem is that this case is two years old, any witnesses may have dried up.

It used to be considered date rape, but now rape is rape is rape.