Something's gotta give - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Badgers Nose · 03-09-2013, 08:18 PM

It's the effin flames man, playoffs should guaranteed every year. Aspiration should be banners and cup.

Stormchaser · 03-09-2013, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakari

Recover from the Sutters. Lol. If Phaneuf played the game he's playing in Toronto right now, on the Flames, we definitely won that deal. Stajan has been playing great. That's the only leftover piece from that deal, but right now, Stajan is one of the key pieces for the Flames. I would rather have this Stajan than Torontos Phaneuf any day of the week. Without Sutter, we wouldn't have Kiprusoff. Sutter was terrible at drafting, sure. But thats the only thing this management is good at. They aren't even re-tooling this roster.

As much faith that I have in this team right now, this year will be the only year we have a shot at making the playoffs. Our core is too old. If we would have traded Iggy after 10-11 and raked in a huge profit I honestly thing we'd be in a playoff spot right now. But we didn't. So we aren't.

We lost the Phanuef for spare parts trade...but you can believe what you want. I would take Phaneuf back every day of the week and send Stajan back to Toronto in a heartbeat. Don't get me wrong, I like this years Matt Stajan but he certainly has left a lot to be desired during his tenure in Calgary. Phanuef was the best player in that deal...they won.....get over it.

When I said "recovering from the Sutters" I was referring to the dark cloud that has hung over the Flames organization for the past 7 years. Darryl was a great Coach and the fact that he brought in a franchise goalie in Kipper for a 2nd round pick deserves credit.....howerver, the majority of his drafting were mostly loses and I was sick of his reclamation projects that sucked up roster positions that could have been filled by younger players.

Then Came Brent.....I've tried my best to defend him all last year but seriously....good riddance!

Making the playoffs this year.......well I too am an optimist but there is a time to take stock and look ahead.......the schedule doesn't favor us and even with games at hand it looks like a pretty tall order to make 8th. Not saying they can't do it.......I want to believe it......but I haven't seen a whole lot of consistent winning for the past 3 years and we are that much older.

You say they aren't even re-tooling the roster? Really? Hudler, Wideman, Cevenka, calling guys in from Abbotsford.......I think that comment has nothing to stand on but enlighten me.

moon · 03-09-2013, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormchaser

You say they aren't even re-tooling the roster? Really? Hudler, Wideman, Cevenka, calling guys in from Abbotsford.......I think that comment has nothing to stand on but enlighten me.

That isn't re-tooling that is shuffling the deck chairs.

Moving out crap and bringing in different crap is exactly what has killed this team over the years. Meh guys like Hudler, Cerevenka, Wideman and the parade of garbage from Abbotsford is exactly what this team doesn't need.

Stormchaser · 03-09-2013, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

That isn't re-tooling that is shuffling the deck chairs.

Moving out crap and bringing in different crap is exactly what has killed this team over the years. Meh guys like Hudler, Cerevenka, Wideman and the parade of garbage from Abbotsford is exactly what this team doesn't need.

Hudler and Wideman have been great additions and have by far exceeded fan expectations. So calling them crap is pretty baseless....but whatever. What has killed this team over the past years has been the refusal to accept the reality and see the writing on the wall. I'm sure you agree with that.

Machiavelli · 03-09-2013, 10:31 PM

Hudler and Wideman aren't crap but they certainly aren't game changers.

Caged Great · 03-09-2013, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Hudler and Wideman aren't crap but they certainly aren't game changers.

They are as they are supposed to be, good secondary pieces, which they are.

Sakari · 03-09-2013, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormchaser

We lost the Phanuef for spare parts trade...but you can believe what you want. I would take Phaneuf back every day of the week and send Stajan back to Toronto in a heartbeat. Don't get me wrong, I like this years Matt Stajan but he certainly has left a lot to be desired during his tenure in Calgary. Phanuef was the best player in that deal...they won.....get over it.

When I said "recovering from the Sutters" I was referring to the dark cloud that has hung over the Flames organization for the past 7 years. Darryl was a great Coach and the fact that he brought in a franchise goalie in Kipper for a 2nd round pick deserves credit.....howerver, the majority of his drafting were mostly loses and I was sick of his reclamation projects that sucked up roster positions that could have been filled by younger players.

Then Came Brent.....I've tried my best to defend him all last year but seriously....good riddance!

Making the playoffs this year.......well I too am an optimist but there is a time to take stock and look ahead.......the schedule doesn't favor us and even with games at hand it looks like a pretty tall order to make 8th. Not saying they can't do it.......I want to believe it......but I haven't seen a whole lot of consistent winning for the past 3 years and we are that much older.

You say they aren't even re-tooling the roster? Really? Hudler, Wideman, Cevenka, calling guys in from Abbotsford.......I think that comment has nothing to stand on but enlighten me.

It depends on your definition of re-tool. Trading Iginla for picks would be rebuilding, but I think you could bring in a good core player for him. Signing free agents is great, but it's not improving the team. We lost Hannan and Moss in the offseason, we replaced them with Hudler and Wideman, two obviously more talented players, added Cervenka. We lost our first line center which has obviously had a HUGE impact on our success as a team. If you lose someone like that without replacing them, you're doing nothing but hindering your roster, not improving them. And until we bring Iginla a good center, this team will not be re-tooled. But that's just my opinion.

moon · 03-09-2013, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormchaser

Hudler and Wideman have been great additions and have by far exceeded fan expectations. So calling them crap is pretty baseless....but whatever. What has killed this team over the past years has been the refusal to accept the reality and see the writing on the wall. I'm sure you agree with that.

Wideman has been brutal outside of the PP and even there he hasn't been that great.

Hudler has some points but his play away from the puck is awful and certainly isn't made up by the points he gets.

The main point is those are two secondary guys. If there two are looked at for being top guys on your team you have a crappy team. Throw in their awful contracts and it is easy to see why this team is picked to be in so much trouble.

I agree with your last statement and signing bad contracts for 2nd liners/bottom pairing PP specialists shows that perfectly.

Stormchaser · 03-09-2013, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

Wideman has been brutal outside of the PP and even there he hasn't been that great.

Hudler has some points but his play away from the puck is awful and certainly isn't made up by the points he gets.

The main point is those are two secondary guys. If there two are looked at for being top guys on your team you have a crappy team. Throw in their awful contracts and it is easy to see why this team is picked to be in so much trouble.

I agree with your last statement and signing bad contracts for 2nd liners/bottom pairing PP specialists shows that perfectly.

Well from my vantage point Wideman has helped anchor our powerplay and was a huge reason we were so successful with it early on. He a great one pass out of the zone as well. He's no Lidstom that's for sure.

So was "crap" just a poor choice of words because the Flames dropped a big egg tonight? Hudler isn't as bad as you make him out to be but I guess its all opinion in the end anyways...

moon · 03-09-2013, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormchaser

Well from my vantage point Wideman has helped anchor our powerplay and was a huge reason we were so successful with it early on. He a great one pass out of the zone as well. He's no Lidstom that's for sure.

So was "crap" just a poor choice of words because the Flames dropped a big egg tonight? Hudler isn't as bad as you make him out to be but I guess its all opinion in the end anyways...

No I think Wideman is definitely crap and has been crap this season. His pass out of the zone seems to go to the other team as often as not.

Hudler, crap is probably too strong but I haven't been overly impressed. He has got points but for the most part he is fairly invisible and his "skill" plays result in a lot of turnovers.

DeluxeMoustache · 03-10-2013, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

No I think Wideman is definitely crap and has been crap this season. His pass out of the zone seems to go to the other team as often as not.

Hudler, crap is probably too strong but I haven't been overly impressed. He has got points but for the most part he is fairly invisible and his "skill" plays result in a lot of turnovers.

Made a good obvious defensive play tonight, good general hockey IQ, tracking for career high in points. What more do you realistically expect?

Dion · 03-10-2013, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Made a good obvious defensive play tonight, good general hockey IQ, tracking for career high in points. What more do you realistically expect?

Moom is being a debbie downer. Nothing new there.

djsFlames · 03-10-2013, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

No I think Wideman is definitely crap and has been crap this season. His pass out of the zone seems to go to the other team as often as not.

Hudler, crap is probably too strong but I haven't been overly impressed. He has got points but for the most part he is fairly invisible and his "skill" plays result in a lot of turnovers.

Actually Hudler is probably the best Flame at holding onto the puck and not just coughing it up, esp in the offensive zone. He's the only one that can actually Skate the puck through into the offensive zone on PPs when the team has trouble entering the blue line. And at times the only one that doesn't throw away the puck like a grenade when pressured in tight by a physically more dominant player. It is one thing he is actually quite good at, because he has excellent hands.

indes · 03-10-2013, 07:06 AM

Wideman has been pretty good all year, I'm thinking you just don't want to admit to being wrong about it being a bad signing. Or you actually think a Brodie Butler/Smith/Sarich pairing would be a better option.

bubbsy · 03-10-2013, 07:12 AM

wideman's been good in the offensive zone, however, playing in the defensive zone is clearly not his strong suit, but i think that's a tradeoff the flames were willing to make, as it should help the PP, and it has.

Hudler, is a decent 2nd liner. Not expected to be a game changer, but a guy who can provide secondary offense.

should the flames have gone out and signed these lengthy contracts, knowing how crap the rest of the team is, no. but again, the flames are a bottom 5 managed team in the league, so no shock on ill-advised moves.

moon · 03-10-2013, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dion

Moom is being a debbie downer. Nothing new there.

Solid contribution as always.

kehatch · 03-10-2013, 09:23 AM

Hudler and Wideman have been good. Ignore moon. He makes up his mind before the first game is played and then sees what he expects to see.

The team itself has sucked. But I haven't had any issues with those two players.

Table 5 · 03-10-2013, 09:27 AM

Hudler and Wideman are exactly what I expect them to be, and I think they fulfill their role just fine. The problem is that their role is supposed to be secondary, not primary.

That primary role is supposed to be filled by Iginla, Gio and Cammalleri. But don't blame the 2nd liners just because those at the top aren't doing their job.

moon · 03-10-2013, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kehatch

Hudler and Wideman have been good. Ignore moon. He makes up his mind before the first game is played and then sees what he expects to see.

LOL

That's right I don't agree with you so it must be some garbage "moon makes up his mind beforehand."

Hudler has been a second line type of player like expected. He is paid too much for too long and shouldn't be looked at as a solution to our problems but he makes some fancy plays that keep some fans happy and ready to ignore his many flaws.

Others have mentioned Wideman's struggles outside of the offensive zone so I am not alone here. Watching him play 2 minutes on a PP that struggles at times to generate shots let alone chances isn't really that impressive to me. He has been an overall poor player while in Calgary.

It is possible that people can have difference of opinions without cheap, baseless personal attacks.

MrMastodonFarm · 03-10-2013, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

No I think Wideman is definitely crap and has been crap this season. His pass out of the zone seems to go to the other team as often as not.

Hudler, crap is probably too strong but I haven't been overly impressed. He has got points but for the most part he is fairly invisible and his "skill" plays result in a lot of turnovers.

You has your mind made up from day one about Wideman so it's hard to take you too seriously. Wideman has had bad games, he's had some boneheaded plays but he's been our top blue liner for the majority of the season and has mostly been fairly solid.

Little confused about his struggles on the pp. Look at the Cammaleri goal last night, that was 100% because of Wideman.