2013 NCAA football thread

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by nik-

Alabama's football program made a profit of $45 million in 2012. I understand that a lot of this money helps fund sports that don't have 100000 people in the stands, so I'm not necessarily saying the kids should be paid by the program, but let them earn money on the side from their celebrity. It's so lame.

The problem is that this could open up a huge can of worms. If players are allowed to "earn money on the side from their celebrity", what's to stop someone like Phil Knight from offering up lucrative Nike sponsorship deals on the condition that they play for Oregon?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by nik-

The NCAA rules are indeed stupid. I mean just look at Hockey. The Flames can't even pay for a flight for their prospects to attend prospect camps. They can't cover their hotel rooms while they attend the camp.

Alabama's football program made a profit of $45 million in 2012. I understand that a lot of this money helps fund sports that don't have 100000 people in the stands, so I'm not necessarily saying the kids should be paid by the program, but let them earn money on the side from their celebrity. It's so lame.

That has always bugged me.

The NCAA loves to make these kids celebrities and profit off of them but they don't allow these kids to profit off of their own hard work.

There is no guarantee that these kids are going to make it as professionals, and these schools don't care if these kids actually get an education that will help them succeed once they graduate (Matt Leinhart taking Ballroom dancing for example).

They only care about winning games and making profits.

Yet all it takes for a lot of these kids is one concussion, a blown out knee, etc and their career is over, their scholarship withdrawn, and they are done.

If somebody wants to pay Manziel for his signature why the hell does it matter. Maybe instead of preventing these kids from making money they should actually teach them how to manage money.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

The problem is that this could open up a huge can of worms. If players are allowed to "earn money on the side from their celebrity", what's to stop someone like Phil Knight from offering up lucrative Nike sponsorship deals on the condition that they play for Oregon?

That's a slippery slope argument, there's plenty of in between that can protect some of the values (if there are any) of college football while allowing athletes to capitalize on opportunities presented to them.

Manziel is a great example. Even though I think the kid is a d-bag he should have the ability to capitalize on the fact that he's a hot commodity right now. He's not guaranteed to have an NFL career, this may be his only opportunity to financially reap the rewards of his success, and instead of getting paid himself NCAA.com is selling shirts with his number and using his name and accomplishments in the descriptions. The fact that players hand their image rights over to this entity, which has the nerve to declare itself a non-profit, which then sucks every dollar it can out of those players accomplishments is despicable. And if those players try to make a buck themselves they're banned.

I'm looking forward to seeing the NCAA fall, it's been a long time coming and the O'Bannon lawsuit is going to be the first blow of many.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by valo403

That's a slippery slope argument, there's plenty of in between that can protect some of the values (if there are any) of college football while allowing athletes to capitalize on opportunities presented to them.

Manziel is a great example. Even though I think the kid is a d-bag he should have the ability to capitalize on the fact that he's a hot commodity right now. He's not guaranteed to have an NFL career, this may be his only opportunity to financially reap the rewards of his success, and instead of getting paid himself NCAA.com is selling shirts with his number and using his name and accomplishments in the descriptions. The fact that players hand their image rights over to this entity, which has the nerve to declare itself a non-profit, which then sucks every dollar it can out of those players accomplishments is despicable. And if those players try to make a buck themselves they're banned.

I'm looking forward to seeing the NCAA fall, it's been a long time coming and the O'Bannon lawsuit is going to be the first blow of many.

A colleague and I were discussing this yesterday and when this issue came up, we both agreed you could take 5 minutes, hire a competent legal team and draft your way around it.

I can see not wanting to pay athletes in college, from the college, but if they can profit off of who they are, why not.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

A colleague and I were discussing this yesterday and when this issue came up, we both agreed you could take 5 minutes, hire a competent legal team and draft your way around it.

I can see not wanting to pay athletes in college, from the college, but if they can profit off of who they are, why not.

Draft your way around which part of it?

To me the whole notion of amateurism is antiquated. I'm not old enough to recall the olympics of the so called amatuer era, but I don't think anyone at the IOC would argue that things are worse now than they were back then.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by valo403

Draft your way around which part of it?

To me the whole notion of amateurism is antiquated. I'm not old enough to recall the olympics of the so called amatuer era, but I don't think anyone at the IOC would argue that things are worse now than they were back then.

Sorry, not around it per se. What I mean is, the NCAA should be able to adequately draft a document that can distinguish between Phil Knight bribing a kid to play at oregon and a kid selling his autograph.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Sorry, not around it per se. What I mean is, the NCAA should be able to adequately draft a document that can distinguish between Phil Knight bribing a kid to play at oregon and a kid selling his autograph.

Oh yeah, there are all sorts of ways to allow players to reap some rewards without opening the door to it becoming NFL Jr.

[nik-]

There is waaaaay too much money involved for people to be forcing these kids to adhere to some nostalgic amateur ideal. It's hypocrisy to the maximum.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Speaking the the NFL, I'm kinda surprised they haven't jumped the NCAA and the "Big 5" conferences and just start their own D-League. Lets be real, most guys who go to play college football at big time programs aren't there to get educated. So why present the facade that they are? They are there to play football, and if they go to class they take communications. Way to waste a scholarship.

So the NFL should just have its own D-League. Players could get paid, they would be under the supervision of the NFL, they could be developped specifically with the pros in mind. Keep the 3 years out of high school thing or even modify it (i.e. players can be drafted right out of high school, just can't play in the NFL until 3 years after).

It would kneecap the NCAA and the Big 5, and the NFL would have the most popular and second most popular football leagues in the world, because an NFL D-League would get all the best athletes in college and the NCAA would return to being more about student athletes.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Speaking the the NFL, I'm kinda surprised they haven't jumped the NCAA and the "Big 5" conferences and just start their own D-League. Lets be real, most guys who go to play college football at big time programs aren't there to get educated. So why present the facade that they are? They are there to play football, and if they go to class they take communications. Way to waste a scholarship.

So the NFL should just have its own D-League. Players could get paid, they would be under the supervision of the NFL, they could be developped specifically with the pros in mind. Keep the 3 years out of high school thing or even modify it (i.e. players can be drafted right out of high school, just can't play in the NFL until 3 years after).

It would kneecap the NCAA and the Big 5, and the NFL would have the most popular and second most popular football leagues in the world, because an NFL D-League would get all the best athletes in college and the NCAA would return to being more about student athletes.

I've thought about that but I'm not sure it would work. A lot of people aren't fans of college football because of the level of play, they're fans because of the relationship to the institutions and what they represent to them. The base of college football is built upon people with strong ties to the programs, largely through alumni. An NFL D-League has none of that, it's simply the NFL with younger players. We already have a pretty strong example of what that scenario looks like in the form of the NBA D-League, which is miles behind NCAA basketball in terms of popularity despite rosters that would dominate the vast majority of NCAA teams.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by valo403

I've thought about that but I'm not sure it would work. A lot of people aren't fans of college football because of the level of play, they're fans because of the relationship to the institutions and what they represent to them. The base of college football is built upon people with strong ties to the programs, largely through alumni. An NFL D-League has none of that, it's simply the NFL with younger players. We already have a pretty strong example of what that scenario looks like in the form of the NBA D-League, which is miles behind NCAA basketball in terms of popularity despite rosters that would dominate the vast majority of NCAA teams.

really good points Valo.
And the NCAA would never allow it because the massive funding they would lose generated by the Football/Basketball programs. TV, merchandise, concessions, right down to parking and everything in between.
As we all know the various schools depend on the Football, Basketball revenues to support every course and facility upgrades and renovations moving forward. Or at least significant contributions.
The larger programs from the Big 5 help fund every smaller school they play.
Same goes for all the bowl games. It is all divided amongst the conferences.
At some point player compensation will occur and become standardized, i feel they are closer to where they were say 10 years ago but still years away. So many layers to go through to make it a reality.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

really good points Valo.
And the NCAA would never allow it because the massive funding they would lose generated by the Football/Basketball programs. TV, merchandise, concessions, right down to parking and everything in between.
As we all know the various schools depend on the Football, Basketball revenues to support every course and facility upgrades and renovations moving forward. Or at least significant contributions.
The larger programs from the Big 5 help fund every smaller school they play.
Same goes for all the bowl games. It is all divided amongst the conferences.
At some point player compensation will occur and become standardized, i feel they are closer to where they were say 10 years ago but still years away. So many layers to go through to make it a reality.

This has always been a question for me and I think it is B.S.

Tuition supports the cost of the students courses and educational related facility upgrades.

The other athletic programs depend on Football and Basketball for funding, but I don't think that it really goes much further outside of the athletic program.

[nik-]

Maybe not materials staffing, but I definitely think they use Football money to help institutional upgrades.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nik-

Maybe not materials staffing, but I definitely think they use Football money to help institutional upgrades.

Institutional upgrades that benefit the football program maybe. Football revenues aren't the driving force behind new computer labs, they're the driving force behind massive new football complexes.

[nik-]

Doubtful. I'm sure that money goes around all over the school.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

really good points Valo.
And the NCAA would never allow it because the massive funding they would lose generated by the Football/Basketball programs. TV, merchandise, concessions, right down to parking and everything in between.
As we all know the various schools depend on the Football, Basketball revenues to support every course and facility upgrades and renovations moving forward. Or at least significant contributions.
The larger programs from the Big 5 help fund every smaller school they play.
Same goes for all the bowl games. It is all divided amongst the conferences.
At some point player compensation will occur and become standardized, i feel they are closer to where they were say 10 years ago but still years away. So many layers to go through to make it a reality.

Well the NCAA wouldn't have to allow anything, they don't control what the NFL or any other entity that wants to start a competing product does. However here are a number of massive barriers to entry, and a lot of reasons to keep investors away.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nik-

Doubtful. I'm sure that money goes around all over the school.

Right, and that's why tuition has been going down as football revenues have gone up.

Look at the massive complexes built for football teams all over the country over the last decade. That's where football revenue goes.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by valo403

Right, and that's why tuition has been going down as football revenues have gone up.

Look at the massive complexes built for football teams all over the country over the last decade. That's where football revenue goes.

When has added revenue ever prompted a business to reduce the cost for their core service? They place a value on it, and that's what they charge. What a silly argument. Obviously football revenue goes into football facilites, I'm saying it's not the only place.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nik-

When has added revenue ever prompted a business to reduce the cost for their core service? What a silly argument. Obviously football revenue goes into football facilites, I'm saying it's not the only place.

A silly argument? A silly argument would be to look around at the multiple hundreds of millions of dollars being spent on football complexes and then come to the conclusion that football revenues are going to things other than football related upgrades.

Have you spent a lot of time on the campus of a school with a major football program lately? I have. Guess where all the cranes are? Not at the social science buildings.

[nik-]

Ok then. You believe that, I'll believe that the schools use the money too. You think that Universities bend over backwards to cater to their football programs so the AD's can direct all that money and none of it hits the faculties?

I don't think so.