That's the thing, lots of people aren't, and it's been demonstrated in this thread. It's treated like being in a bad mood or having a rough day, when the reality is that it's a serious medical condition.
This, if the one thing that people get out of this day is that people with mental illness have recognizable symptoms that are being passed off on, and if we can teach people to see when someone is having trouble then its a complete win.
Like I said the advertisement thoughts have been really thought provoking on that very thing.
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Yeah, it makes absolutely no sense. He was afraid of the stigma, yet a lot of the stigma comes from people with attitudes like his.
Which is ironic considering he claims to be bipolar.
And Peter, yes, I do know people who have dealt with it. I deal with it myself, and have most of my life.
And you want to know what the hardest part was? Feeling able to to reach out to someone. I wasn't able to even start moving past my issues until I found someone I could trust enough to listen. I know several people who felt the same. Treatment - in whatever form works best for the individual - could not happen until we felt able to simply talk about it.
It isn't about "coddling", it is about trust and comfort. And your attitude lends neither.
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That's the thing, lots of people aren't, and it's been demonstrated in this thread. It's treated like being in a bad mood or having a rough day, when the reality is that it's a serious medical condition.
Respectfully, I disagree. People know it exists. They might not know the particular form. What people don't like to do, is acknowledge it. There's a difference.
I can actually see where Peter is coming from with regards to his statements on medication, antidepressants are the most commonly prescribed medications in the western world, they are a massive business and they are often administered because it is relatively cheap and easy to do so and it forces people not to have to deal with the actual issues in a constructive manner. That isn't to say that antidepressants don't serve a purpose however popping a pill isn't a cure, it is a masking of the symptoms, the use of therapy, talking to people, improving living conditions, making more sustainable and healthy communities (not only in the physical sense but the connectedness and emotional sense)... also exercise is a key aspect to mental health and well being as well as effective sleep.
Programs designed to decrease the stigma are great however short term awareness programs generally aren't effective, if people really want to make a difference they should push for more education at a primary school level to teach children about mental illness and mental health where you have a captive audience... but that takes time and money.
Respectfully, I disagree. People know it exists. They might not know the particular form. What people don't like to do, is acknowledge it. There's a difference.
Completely disagree. Lots of people don't believe it exists. They know that people supposedly have mental health issues, but they don't believe that they are legitimate issues. They think it's a matter of being moody, being lazy, not being tough enough etc. as opposed to the legitimate medical condition that it is.
Location: Close enough to make a beer run during a TV timeout
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard
Programs designed to decrease the stigma are great however short term awareness programs generally aren't effective, if people really want to make a difference they should push for more education at a primary school level to teach children about mental illness and mental health where you have a captive audience... but that takes time and money.
While I will agree that more could/should be done on an educational level; that doesn't mean this program didn't have merit. The one thing it did among my friends was opened a few of us up on Facebook to talk about feelings, and to remind our friends that we are here for them should they need somebody to talk to.
Obviously this didn't solve all the world's problems, but it was a good start.
I can actually see where Peter is coming from with regards to his statements on medication, antidepressants are the most commonly prescribed medications in the western world, they are a massive business and they are often administered because it is relatively cheap and easy to do so and it forces people not to have to deal with the actual issues in a constructive manner. That isn't to say that antidepressants don't serve a purpose however popping a pill isn't a cure, it is a masking of the symptoms, the use of therapy, talking to people, improving living conditions, making more sustainable and healthy communities (not only in the physical sense but the connectedness and emotional sense)... also exercise is a key aspect to mental health and well being as well as effective sleep.
All very true. Most doctors will write a prescription because it's easier for them to run patients through. In talking to other depressives many have told me that they went on medication and it's helped, but it hasn't made their problems go away. Which isn't surprising because they also failed to look at the cause of the depression. Going to the root of the problem drastically makes things better, and looking after yorself with sleep and exercise helps keep the worst of things at bay. The meds are then a part of a greater treatment.
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I've been dealing with these issues for most of my life. It gets under control, and then out of control very quickly. The weird thing is that it has motivated me, too. I've always thought of the next thing I could do that might make it not happen anymore - getting a good career, getting the pride of my family, approval from my peers, putting together a stable lifestyle, being good at the things I enjoy doing, getting into good shape, finding someone, even distracting myself with hobbies. But even if it helps it doesn't make it go away, it'll come back.
People talk about the stigma associated with it, and that is one factor, because you don't want people to look at you differently. Partly it's people thinking there's something wrong with you, that's never a good feeling. But the other thing is, people freak the $*%# out. A couple of years ago I had a long talk with a good friend about it and sort of put everything out there, and just listening to me she was devastated. Who wants to burden the people they care about with something like this? That's a large part of why people try to just manage it themselves and deal with it internally I think.
But the other thing is, there's also an awareness issue for the people who are afflicted with mental illness in that it's not clear who to go to for help because it's not a normal illness or injury you'd just go to your doctor with. If I need someone to help me with my issues, someone who has experience treating these problems, how do I get in contact with such a person? It's probably tough to understand how paralyzing this illness can be. Even just committing to dialing a phone number and talking to someone is so difficult. That is the kind of awareness that needs to be raised - point people directly to the means to get help. Make it simple. Even if for only that reason I think this is a helpful program, same with hockey talks, same with mindcheck.ca.
Last edited by AR_Six; 02-14-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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This is one of my favourite Rush songs. When I have my bouts the chorus is inspiring/comforting. I've bolded it for emphasis.
Proud swagger out of the schoolyard
Waiting for the world's applause
Rebel without a conscience
Martyr without a cause
Static on your frequency
Electrical storm in your veins
Raging at unreachable glory
Straining at invisible chains
And now you're trembling on a rocky ledge
Staring down into a heartless sea
Can't face life on a razor's edge
Nothing's what you thought it would be
All of us get lost in the darkness
Dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter
Dreamers turn to look at the stars
Turn around and turn around and turn around
Turn around and walk the razor's edge
Don't turn your back
And slam the door on me
It's not as if this barricade
Blocks the only road
It's not as if you're all alone
In wanting to explode
Someone set a bad example
Made surrender seem all right
The act of a noble warrior
Who lost the will to fight
And now you're trembling on a rocky ledge
Staring down into a heartless sea
Done with life on a razor's edge
Nothing's what you thought it would be
No hero in your tragedy
No daring in your escape
No salutes for your surrender
Nothing noble in your fate
Christ, what have you done?
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- Surferguy
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I said last night this particular day sparked something within me.
We've been talking her about awareness; reducing the stigma around mental issues. Which is about letting people without such issues be more accepting of those that have these issues. Just as we wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) shun people with cancer or AIDS, we shouldn't give a cold shoulder to those that are struggle with a mental illness.
But more than that, it's about those who suffer from these inflictions to realize that they are not alone, that they shouldn't be ashamed of who they are or how they feel, and that with help there is hope.
I particularly suffer from the middle part there. As I said earlier in this thread, my particular issue is food addiction. I would say "today is the day that I am going to prove to myself that I have the self control, the willpower and the strength not to overeat" and then by the end of the day I would just blow it. And I'd feel absolutely ashamed to be alive. And I'd treat that shame with comfort foods. If I accept that it's not that I am an awful and weak human being and that something is wired wrong in my head that makes me overindulge, that does NOT absolve me of finding a solution, it only means that I'm not the worthless person that I feel like when I binge eat.
Similarly, those that suffer from depression have the same issues of shame and want to keep their affliction hidden. So many people hide their depression out of shame. If they come to accept that it's not their fault that they feel as they do, hopefully it should less their burden.
Like I said earlier in this thread, I'm seeing a therapist for the first time in my life tomorrow and I'm looking forward to it. I'm hopeful that we can find a way to deal with my particular addiction.
Despite the binge eating, I have been able to keep my weight reasonably in control. But only because after I binge eat, I punish myself with a couple hours on the treadmill and another couple on the elliptical. So in my particular case, "more exercise" isn't the answer it is for other forms of mental illness. But I'll put my hope in the hands of the specialists at the Ottawa Hospital and see what they come up with.
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Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard
I can actually see where Peter is coming from with regards to his statements on medication, antidepressants are the most commonly prescribed medications in the western world, they are a massive business and they are often administered because it is relatively cheap and easy to do so and it forces people not to have to deal with the actual issues in a constructive manner. That isn't to say that antidepressants don't serve a purpose however popping a pill isn't a cure, it is a masking of the symptoms, the use of therapy, talking to people, improving living conditions, making more sustainable and healthy communities (not only in the physical sense but the connectedness and emotional sense)... also exercise is a key aspect to mental health and well being as well as effective sleep.
To say it isn't a cure is not true. I take pills for anxiety and depression. On top of that I exercise 5-6 days a week, sleep 8 hours a day and have used talk therapy in the past. Take away my pills and my life will spiral downward. I would do anything not to have to take these pills and the side effects that go with it. I've done lots of research on anti depressents and it's dark side. That said I tried living life without them for long periods of time only to have the above come back.
On a short time basis they can be quite effective as they help stabilise a persons moods so they can deal with the talk therapy in an effective manner.
I agree that meds can be a quick and easy fix but it's also a doctor problem where they don't want to deal with the issues the patient is dealing with. For example I had at one time a doctor who sat with head down and picked at his finger nails as I explained what was happening with me. He returned a few minutes later without looking at my face and handed me a sample package of Paxil and said try this. No mention of getting talk therapy, nothing! Lets just say I quickly found another doctor willing to help me.
Quote:
Programs designed to decrease the stigma are great however short term awareness programs generally aren't effective, if people really want to make a difference they should push for more education at a primary school level to teach children about mental illness and mental health where you have a captive audience... but that takes time and money.
Making talk therapy affordable for everyone is a huge issue. If you're not lucky enough to have an employee assistance program it can cost upwards of a $100 an hour or more to see a psycologist.
Kids and adults should be taught that just because someone has a mental illness they are not be feared or avoided.
To say it isn't a cure is not true. I take pills for anxiety and depression. On top of that I exercise 5-6 days a week, sleep 8 hours a day and have used talk therapy in the past. Take away my pills and my life will spiral downward. I would do anything not to have to take these pills and the side effects that go with it. I've done lots of research on anti depressents and it's dark side. That said I tried living life without them for long periods of time only to have the above come back.
Medication isn't a cure, it is a treatment but it isn't a cure. I really believe in a high percentage of cases people are prescribed pills because it is an easier option. It isn't as simple as taking a pill, or going to the gym or getting some more sleep (although all those things can help) it is about addressing the individual reasons for the mood disturbances and doing so takes long periods of time, is thankless and costs a bunch of money. Pills on the other hand and quick and fast and people view them as a cure, rather than as a treatment.
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On a short time basis they can be quite effective as they help stabilise a persons moods so they can deal with the talk therapy in an effective manner.
That isn't what they are used for though, they are often used instead of therapy not as a supplement to therapeutic discourse.
Quote:
I agree that meds can be a quick and easy fix but it's also a doctor problem where they don't want to deal with the issues the patient is dealing with. For example I had at one time a doctor who sat with head down and picked at his finger nails as I explained what was happening with me. He returned a few minutes later without looking at my face and handed me a sample package of Paxil and said try this. No mention of getting talk therapy, nothing! Lets just say I quickly found another doctor willing to help me.
That is a common story because mental health is a speciality that few people are trained in and frankly it is time intensive. The guy realistically should have written a referral to somewhere else.
Quote:
Making talk therapy affordable for everyone is a huge issue. If you're not lucky enough to have an employee assistance program it can cost upwards of a $100 an hour or more to see a psycologist.
Kids and adults should be taught that just because someone has a mental illness they are not be feared or avoided.
I agree, I also think that you are stuck on what you call talk therapy because it has worked for you but there are other approaches such as groups, and CBT that are effective in dealing with mental health issues, however as I indicated before it is a societal issue and we need to look at the way our society is established if we want to see effective change, we live as individual units not as part of a larger cohesive framework.
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Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
Some sources of prejudice and discrimination
Quote:
Fear: Some people – unjustifiably – fear that those with mental disorders are likely to be violent. Some people simply fear the condition itself because it affects a person's behaviour. These fears may be reinforced by the media.
Misconceptions: There is a widespread belief that people cannot recover from mental illness or participate in their communities. Most do.
Blame and self-blame: People with mental disorders are sometimes blamed for their condition or viewed as weak. They, or their loved ones, may also blame themselves. In many cultures, the entire family carries their loved one's stigma.
How bad is it?
A recent Canadian research study found that almost half of the people surveyed considered a mental disorder was just an excuse for poor behaviour. Research has also shown that more than 50% of people living with mental illness felt they had been discriminated against.
Everyone has the right to live without discrimination, including people with mental health problems. All of us in our society, from individuals to the media, can play a part in ensuring that they do.
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard
Medication isn't a cure, it is a treatment but it isn't a cure. I really believe in a high percentage of cases people are prescribed pills because it is an easier option. It isn't as simple as taking a pill, or going to the gym or getting some more sleep (although all those things can help) it is about addressing the individual reasons for the mood disturbances and doing so takes long periods of time, is thankless and costs a bunch of money. Pills on the other hand and quick and fast and people view them as a cure, rather than as a treatment.
I clearly misunderstood your point on it being a treatment as opposed to a cure.
In the States I know the pharmacuetical companies like to advertise about thier anti depressents. It angers me that they are allowed to do that. IMO it gives the viewer the idea that popping someone pharmaceuticals pills is the magical cure.
Quote:
That isn't what they are used for though, they are often used instead of therapy not as a supplement to therapeutic discourse.
That's how it was used with me. I saw both a psychiatrist, GP and psycologist all at the same time who were all working together on my treatment. Maybe I was a part of a very small minority. I even questioned why it was done this way.
Quote:
That is a common story because mental health is a speciality that few people are trained in and frankly it is time intensive. The guy realistically should have written a referral to somewhere else.
Guys like that should better trained or banned from practicing as a doctor. My fear at the time was some other depressed person was going to walk out of his office feeling that no one cared and in the process may have comitted suicide.
I also had a guy in emerg at the Rockyview hospital accuse me of abusing the system and went so far as to threaten to have me locked up in mental ward. I said go ahead and follow through on your threat! All I was doing was searching for help after I left my GP. He returned awhile later and mumbled something that sounded like an apology and said I was free to go.
I have regrets about not reporting both to the College of Physicians and Surgeons.
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I agree, I also think that you are stuck on what you call talk therapy because it has worked for you but there are other approaches such as groups, and CBT that are effective in dealing with mental health issues, however as I indicated before it is a societal issue and we need to look at the way our society is established if we want to see effective change, we live as individual units not as part of a larger cohesive framework.
Nothing personal, but I am aware of the other therapies that a patient can use. I agree there is no one fits all type treatment that works.
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Last edited by Dion; 02-15-2013 at 01:09 AM.
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There's an article about Clint Malarchuk and his fight with depression in the Sun today. I can't find a link to it, but this article from Sportsnet from last year is pretty much the same thing:
Nothing personal, but I am aware of the other therapies that a patient can use. I agree there is no one fits all type treatment that works.
You missed the main point - treatment is a reactionary approach to a systemic problem, the rates of depression and the prescriptions for antidepressants are remarkably high. This indicates to me that there is a larger issue with our society that needs to be addressed rather than the treatment options available. We live in a very closed and isolated society - when is the last time that someone met someone new that wasn't related to work. Heck I don't know my own neighbours name, we lead two parallel lives only running into each other on the way to school or work. I really think that this is the downside of technology is that while we are plugged in with each other to a greater degree than ever before we are also more and more isolated, leading to higher rates of clinical depression. That isn't to say that all depression is the same and that all mental illness is the same but when I look at the situation I can't help but think that a larger, more broad, more innovative approach is required relative to merely pumping money into programs but rather looking at the social and physical construction of our society.
You missed the main point - treatment is a reactionary approach to a systemic problem, the rates of depression and the prescriptions for antidepressants are remarkably high. This indicates to me that there is a larger issue with our society that needs to be addressed rather than the treatment options available. We live in a very closed and isolated society - when is the last time that someone met someone new that wasn't related to work. Heck I don't know my own neighbours name, we lead two parallel lives only running into each other on the way to school or work. I really think that this is the downside of technology is that while we are plugged in with each other to a greater degree than ever before we are also more and more isolated, leading to higher rates of clinical depression. That isn't to say that all depression is the same and that all mental illness is the same but when I look at the situation I can't help but think that a larger, more broad, more innovative approach is required relative to merely pumping money into programs but rather looking at the social and physical construction of our society.
I think you're making an error in attributing mental illness primarily to societal factors. I don't care how much social interaction you have or how much time you spend surfing the interwebz, or whether you even know what Google is, if your brain chemistry determines you're going to feel X, it won't matter. In my experience, the "reasons" for depression are just things that happen at the same time as rough patches in terms of the symptoms - people then assume correlation implies causation.
I recently had something go wrong at work and at roughly the same time I started considering suicide. This does not mean that the work issue is responsible for me thinking that way even though it may seem like that subjectively. I really think if it wasn't that, it'd be something else - I'd decide something was wrong with my relationship with my girlfriend maybe, or that the impending visit from family was causing me stress or something. Real world factors may to some degree trigger these issues but the symptoms would have found a way regardless.
I obviously have no psych background, though I've educated myself on this to the extent one can as a lay person (which is difficult because believe me it's preferable to just not think about it and pretend it doesn't exist). This is just how it seems to me after having this happen over the years... there's no rhyme or reason to what seems to cause these attacks. Like I said before, it doesn't matter what I do with my life, and I've done lots to make it seem like it should be, from an outside perspective, a good life. The same old symptoms inevitably re-emerge. There's just something wrong with my brain.
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I think you're making an error in attributing mental illness primarily to societal factors. I don't care how much social interaction you have or how much time you spend surfing the interwebz, or whether you even know what Google is, if your brain chemistry determines you're going to feel X, it won't matter. In my experience, the "reasons" for depression are just things that happen at the same time as rough patches in terms of the symptoms - people then assume correlation implies causation.
Was just going to post this. Saying medication is just masking the symptoms is akin to saying that chemotherapy just masks cancer. Medication alone may not be the answer for some people, but if there is a chemistry problem with your brain, it may indeed be necessary.
Holy crap! That's all I have to say about today's experience.
First, the person I was speaking to was doing a study on Binge Eating Disorder and participation in the study was free. However, after my 2 hour interview, I was told that I was not a good candidate for the study and there is a high likelihood that I am bulimic and this treatment they are studying does not work for bulimia. So she recommended that I go to Hopewell. Their website describes themselves as "eastern Ontario’s only eating disorder support centre".
I had no idea that psychiatrists, psychologists... even counsellors... cost that much money. I can't afford that even though I have a decent job.. how do those suffering from depression who don't have a good job get help? Everyone says how important it is to talk to a professional and get some help... but that's outrageously expensive.
