NRA calls for armed police officers in all U.S. schools

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Slava

This way of thinking is so defeatist though. Because it might not work we should just do nothing until the only full solution is implemented? Gun control means a long, protracted argument. Let's all hope we see it one day soon.

In the meantime though we have these wackos out there. Its a sad state of affairs when we basically say that this might not work as well as we would like, or is too expensive, or whatever other excuse we find, so we're going to do nothing but talk about how terrible this is.

But without proper gun control, I don't think I would want to be the armed guard at any school. I would just end up being a sitting duck, risking my life every day by just being there. Strict gun control + some sort of lightly armed police officer at every school is probably a lot more effective.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

This isn't directed at you in particular, but I've seen this statement come up a few times and wanted to address it.

This guy killed his mom for access to guns. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility to think that if his mom didn't have guns, he would have probably got them from someone / somewhere else.

I don't think anyone believes stricter gun control laws is going to stop gun crime entirely, but that's not the point. The point is much the same as the point of having cops in every school is: make it more difficult for those wanting to commit gun crimes to commit gun crimes, so they have to resort to using less lethal weapons, or jettison the crime entirely, or go far, far out of their way to obtain a firearm (and, hopefully, alongside a gun control law there would be an assault weapon ban of some sort, so they would ultimately obtain a less lethal firearm, too).

A gun control law would be different than cops in every school, however, in that it would have positive repercussions in other crime areas, as well as not simply shuffling the victims from a school to victims from some other venue.

[Azure]

Even if the US reinstates the 1994 assault weapons ban that expired in 2004, it doesn't remove the assault weapons that exist in American households.

Hell, the proposal for gun control that is apparently going to be tabled in January, will still allow Americans to own 900 different types of firearms. People are pretty naive if they think the US government will come up with an effective form of gun control.

They can't even come up with a half decent fiscal cliff agreement.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The NRA and people who agree with their idea reminds me of OilKiller and his plan to get out of debt.

Money problems? Spend more money
Gun problems? More guns!

Never thought that I would see the day where I would be lumped in with the NRA either! Its shocking for sure!

Originally Posted by _Q_

But without proper gun control, I don't think I would want to be the armed guard at any school. I would just end up being a sitting duck, risking my life every day by just being there. Strict gun control + some sort of lightly armed police officer at every school is probably a lot more effective.

I'm talking about armed police officers, specifically.

[SeeBass]

Reps go after unions, now Dems go after NRA

the third rails are now touchable

[Plett25]

So, the NRA says that an armed guard would prevent school shootings...

But there was a cop at Columbine

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/col...UTIES_TEXT.htm

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Azure

Even if the US reinstates the 1994 assault weapons ban that expired in 2004, it doesn't remove the assault weapons that exist in American households.

Hell, the proposal for gun control that is apparently going to be tabled in January, will still allow Americans to own 900 different types of firearms. People are pretty naive if they think the US government will come up with an effective form of gun control.

They can't even come up with a half decent fiscal cliff agreement.

I certainly don't think they will, I'm just hoping! And if they did somehow institute a comprehensive and effective gun control law, it would still likely take years before its effects are really felt, it's true, though it would certainly be a huge step in the right direction for the future.

[Azure]

Slava has a point here, that the idea of having a police offer at the school goes way beyond just protecting.

Principals reported that 76.0% were involved in
maintaining school discipline, 77.5% in mentoring students, 45.8% in teaching
law-related education courses of other direct student training, and 62.4% in
training for teachers and staff related to security or crime prevention.

These
reported activities are consistent with data from other surveys which suggest
that the typical police officer spends approximately half his or her time on
law-enforcement activities, 25% on mentoring or counseling students, and 13%
on teaching (Finn et al., 2005).

http://www.ccjs.umd.edu/sites/ccjs.u...0Behaviors.pdf

Couple other interesting parts from the study.

The use of police in schools has increased dramatically in the past 12 years, largely due to increases in US Department of Justice Office of COPS funding for these programs. Compared to 1975 when only 1% of the nation’s schools had police stationed in them, as of the 2007-2008 school year, 40% of schools had police stationed in them.

Like many social programs that are motivated by a sense of urgency to do something about a perceived crisis situation, this program has grown dramatically without the benefit of scientific evaluation. No rigorous study to date has demonstrated that placing police in schools promotes school safety. Our study finds no evidence that increased use of SROs decreases school crime.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Plett25

So, the NRA says that an armed guard would prevent school shootings...

But there was a cop at Columbine

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/col...UTIES_TEXT.htm

Pretty sure he was in a different building as well. Which brings up the problem of one single person covering a large amount of 'school.' It is simply impossible to do.

[dammage79]

What I hear when I hear the NRA "Der ka der!"

http://youtu.be/brj2UkUPjCI

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

I certainly don't think they will, I'm just hoping! And if they did somehow institute a comprehensive and effective gun control law, it would still likely take years before its effects are really felt, it's true, though it would certainly be a huge step in the right direction for the future.

If I'm reading it right, the 1994 AWB wouldn't have banned the gun the shooter used at Sandy Hook.

Most of us would classify it as an assault weapon though.

[drhu22]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I remember having a cop in high school here in Calgary back in the 90s. I assume he was armed. How is this any different than that?

Forest Lawn High in 1976 had cops...more to do with drugs and vandalism I think. A little off putting, but not that big a deal to us back then.

[SeeBass]

Could you imagine if a few years ago Obama had said he would like to put armed guards in all schools the right would have freaked.

It would have been a commie plot to indoctrinate your children

[Wormius]

Gees. How did they possibly conceive of such an idea? Is this "Idiocracy" come to life?

This doesn't end in any positive way: bored, lethargic, depressed armed guards go on a shooting rampage, or look for any reason they can to shoot somebody after they have been stationed at a school doing nothing; they are targeted by a school shooter who is already familiar with the school's layout and guard routine.

Any how exactly are they going to be of any use in the morning, recess, lunch, after school? Is this armed guard going to be in a watchtower?

How about a better idea - stop making guns and ammunition available to civilians, and start a buy-back or trade-in program.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Azure

Pretty sure he was in a different building as well. Which brings up the problem of one single person covering a large amount of 'school.' It is simply impossible to do.

I assume the NRA would just say the death toll would have been higher if not for that one guard.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Best press conference ever.

Two highlights for me:

1) Putting the onus on the press and Hollywood movies for glamorizing violence, then using Natural Born Killers as his movie example. As others have said, the ironing is delicious.

2) Lamenting the fact that the government *refuses* to create an active database of the "mentally ill" What's so wrong with an app that tells me who the nearest mentally ill person is?

[ripTDR]

maybe the nra can pay for this as well?

im sure they got more money than the us government or whomever these costs are going to fall on

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

maybe the nra can pay for this as well?

im sure they got more money than the us government or whomever these costs are going to fall on

Actually that is a great idea, Obama should announce the immeadiate hiring of guards for all the nations 150,000 schools to be paid for solely by a user fee levied on all guns and ammunition, I would assume adding 15,000 to every gun and bullets at 20 or 30 bucks a peice would make a dent in gun ownership.

[undercoverbrother]

Cops in Schools is a band aid not a cure.

[polak]

Originally Posted by drhu22

Forest Lawn High in 1976 had cops...more to do with drugs and vandalism I think. A little off putting, but not that big a deal to us back then.

O'Byrne had a cop. Believe it still does.

That cop couldn't even stop kids from smoking weed on school grounds.