Gunman opens fire at Oregon mall

[valo403]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Mass shootings draw all the attention, of course--but gun violence on a smaller scale is also a big problem in the US. I don't even live in a terribly dangerous city, and yet nearly every day on the news there is at least one report of a shooting. In more dangerous cities (Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit) those incidents are much higher. Those are also gun-related deaths and should be added to the conversation.

Not all car accidents are 20 car pileups, and not all gun-related events are mass shootings.

The crazy part is that you still don't hear about them. I lived in Lansing for 3+ years, 45 minutes from both Detroit and Flint, and rarely saw news coverage of shootings. Living in NYC now you only see coverage of the really sensational stuff, or when it happens in more affluent communities. A shooting in the ghetto on a tuesday night isn't in the news on wednesday.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well they didn't elect a Republican President, so that's a start.

Of course the funniest thing is gun sales typically spike whenever a Democrat becomes President for fear that "They're gonna come take our guns". Democratic Presidents have been pretty good to the gun industry's bottom line, contrary to what people might think.

[cracher]

Originally Posted by valo403

The crazy part is that you still don't hear about them. I lived in Lansing for 3+ years, 45 minutes from both Detroit and Flint, and rarely saw news coverage of shootings. Living in NYC now you only see coverage of the really sensational stuff, or when it happens in more affluent communities. A shooting in the ghetto on a tuesday night isn't in the news on wednesday.

100% agree.

Lived in West Bloomfield and worked at either 6mile/Inner or 9mile/Greenfield. I used to hear about gun violence very frequently through word of mouth or work bulletins... but rarely in the media. I wonder if they go out of their way to not cover this stuff.

[PIMking]

cant be true, the mall was a no gun zone... Gun laws only protect the criminals since those who obey the laws don't break them.

Guns are illegal in Chicago and murder by guns happen all the time. I'm not justifying that guns aren't dangerous, I'm just saying that even if you ban them and outlaw them that these things will still happen.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PIMking

cant be true, the mall was a no gun zone... Gun laws only protect the criminals since those who obey the laws don't break them.

Guns are illegal in Chicago and murder by guns happen all the time. I'm not justifying that guns aren't dangerous, I'm just saying that even if you ban them and outlaw them that these things will still happen.

What a ridiculous post. Why have any laws then? People still murder and rape others, despite those things being illegal. It's not about eliminating risk, it's about reducing it.

And how exactly do gun laws protect criminals?

[polak]

Oh please. How many people who do these do so with legally purchased guns?

People always like to say that if guns were banned "these shooting rampagers would just find them on the street"... If I were to snap today and decide I wanted to shoot up a mall or something, I'd literally have no clue where to start looking. Gangsters R' Us? Maybe its different in the States but you won't find guys hawking guns on street corners here.

It won't stop them all but it will stop some. Better then hoping for a shoot-out between civilians and shooters.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by PIMking

cant be true, the mall was a no gun zone... Gun laws only protect the criminals since those who obey the laws don't break them.

Guns are illegal in Chicago and murder by guns happen all the time. I'm not justifying that guns aren't dangerous, I'm just saying that even if you ban them and outlaw them that these things will still happen.

Obviously a gun ban in Chicago will have no effect if guns are for sale 5 miles away, but if guns were banned throughout the U.S., you'd see a major reduction in gun violence.

The inner city violence probably wouldn't drop significantly because drug dealers and gang members would be able to obtain guns illegally (as you suggest), but I don't think a lot of these mass shooting guys would be able to. For example, I'd bet that the Aurora theater shooter would have put an add on Craigslist saying that he wanted to buy guns, then been promptly arrested, if he hadn't been able to walk into a gun store and buy them legally.

I'm not saying that all guns should be banned, but just pointing out that the usual NRA talking points don't hold much water.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by polak

Oh please. How many people who do these do so with legally purchased guns?

People always like to say that if guns were banned "these shooting rampagers would just find them on the street"... If I were to snap today and decide I wanted to shoot up a mall or something, I'd literally have no clue where to start looking. Gangsters R' Us? Maybe its different in the States but you won't find guys hawking guns on street corners here.

It won't stop them all but it will stop some. Better then hoping for a shoot-out between civilians and shooters.

Exactly. If it's a crime of passion or someone going off the deep end, you're telling me they're going to take the time to gain access to black market firearms. I have a vague idea of where I could buy illegal guns in Canada if I so chose to, but it would take a lot of effort and planning. In a country where guns are very uncommon, it probably wouldn't take long for people to notice if I were to suddenly start stockpiling weapons.

EDIT: And how many of these guns that wind up in states with gun control laws are purchased at gun shows or in states with relaxed gun control laws? I doubt the number of firearms sold illegally in the United States originated from illegal sources.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by polak

Oh please. How many people who do these do so with legally purchased guns?

People always like to say that if guns were banned "these shooting rampagers would just find them on the street"... If I were to snap today and decide I wanted to shoot up a mall or something, I'd literally have no clue where to start looking. Gangsters R' Us? Maybe its different in the States but you won't find guys hawking guns on street corners here.

It won't stop them all but it will stop some. Better then hoping for a shoot-out between civilians and shooters.

I live in a state with fairly lax gun laws, but I wouldn't really know where to buy a gun either. I suppose I could figure it out with some googling , but aren't there places to buy guns in Canada too?

I'd have no issues with any kind of stricter laws concerning gun control.

At that same time, I've lived here ten years, and have had no run ins with anyone having guns, i can't think of anyone I know who's had any run ins, and really I don't feel any less or more secure knowing there are a bunch of guns around than I did living in Calgary.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I live in a state with fairly lax gun laws, but I wouldn't really know where to buy a gun either. I suppose I could figure it out with some googling , but aren't there places to buy guns in Canada too?

I'd have no issues with any kind of stricter laws concerning gun control.

At that same time, I've lived here ten years, and have had no run ins with anyone having guns, i can't think of anyone I know who's had any run ins, and really I don't feel any less or more secure knowing there are a bunch of guns around than I did living in Calgary.

There are online black marketplaces and such where I'm pretty sure you can purchase guns, but there isn't a really convenient or legal way to purchase them in Canada (unless we're talking about hunting rifles, etc.).

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by KTrain

Gun control.
Stay classy America.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Cars kill more people.
More guns would have prevented this.
Anecdotal story about guns saving lives.
Anecdotal story about guns not saving lives.
Relate this shooting another unrelated incident.
Your an idiot.
No, your an idiot.

<end thread>

Were here.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Were here.

Of course we are here.

Just like we got here last time. And we'll get here next time, and the time after that, and the time after that, and the...

Luckily this isn't an ongoing problem.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I live in a state with fairly lax gun laws, but I wouldn't really know where to buy a gun either. I suppose I could figure it out with some googling , but aren't there places to buy guns in Canada too?

I'd have no issues with any kind of stricter laws concerning gun control.

At that same time, I've lived here ten years, and have had no run ins with anyone having guns, i can't think of anyone I know who's had any run ins, and really I don't feel any less or more secure knowing there are a bunch of guns around than I did living in Calgary.

In Virginia? Really? You don't know anyone who has guns? You don't see signs for gun stores?

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by valo403

In Virginia? Really? You don't know anyone who has guns? You don't see signs for gun stores?

Northern Virginia and the rest of the state are like two different countries.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by gargamel

Northern Virginia and the rest of the state are like two different countries.

Oh I know that, but there's still plenty of Virginians who seep into Northern Virginia. I'm just surprised that after a decade he wouldn't have encountered any of that element.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by valo403

In Virginia? Really? You don't know anyone who has guns? You don't see signs for gun stores?

I know of lots of people who have guns. I meant I haven't had any run-ins with anyone with a gun. I think the gun stores are off the beaten path a bit, I can't recall where one might be. Yes, I'm sure with a little effort I could find one, but if I left my house in a rage ready to get someone, I dont know if I'd find one.

[nfotiu]

And for the record, I'm not in in northern Virginia, but a fairly affluent Richmond suburb.

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Are here.

FYP


I think.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Was reading cracked today and came across this.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I know of lots of people who have guns. I meant I haven't had any run-ins with anyone with a gun. I think the gun stores are off the beaten path a bit, I can't recall where one might be. Yes, I'm sure with a little effort I could find one, but if I left my house in a rage ready to get someone, I dont know if I'd find one.

Oh okay, I thought you meant you didn't know anyone who owned a gun, which sounded crazy to me.