So, what would you suggest Canada, as a nation, do militarily? It seems you're against us continuing to "follow the US around like a puppy". What's your alternative?
No, we should/have to continue to follow the US around but lets not waste any more money on it than we have to. We should stop pretending 2 or 3 squadrons of anything will protect us, so lets not worry about being at the bleeding edge of stealth tech and buy some super hornets at half the price, they will do the job.
Good job Peter, your legacy as defense minister will be throwing away 100's of millions and a tonne of jobs in f-35 development contracts, and the real prize you'll get is no deals from the americans in future needs.
Good job Peter, your legacy as defense minister will be throwing away 100's of millions and a tonne of jobs in f-35 development contracts, and the real prize you'll get is no deals from the americans in future needs.
Dummy!
I don't pretend to have any special knowledge but the ballooning costs associated with the F-35 project are making them less and less appealing as time goes by. The costs have made their way up to 40 billion dollars. Seriously that is a massive chunk of change and I think that having a sober second thought and not chasing sunk costs is good. Fact is Canada needs new fighter jets, but at what cost?
The Americans (or Lockheed) will still deal with Canada in the future - as long as we have a chequebook and are allies they will still be willing to sell us planes.
I don't pretend to have any special knowledge but the ballooning costs associated with the F-35 project are making them less and less appealing as time goes by. The costs have made their way up to 40 billion dollars. Seriously that is a massive chunk of change and I think that having a sober second thought and not chasing sunk costs is good. Fact is Canada needs new fighter jets, but at what cost?
The Americans (or Lockheed) will still deal with Canada in the future - as long as we have a chequebook and are allies they will still be willing to sell us planes.
I heard $30 billion over 20 years including maintenance and upgrades if the costs are right all of which is still up in the air , whatever, we spent about $20 billion in friken Afghanistan over the last 10 years and we don't even have a tail-feather to show for it.
Fact is our fighters are now old junk, do we go with cheaper 4th generation stuff that quite likely in 5 years will be so outdated that a tribe in Kenya will be able to shoot down? or pay a little more so we won't have to mourn our pilots. To me,it only takes the saving of one of our own to make it worth it.
I heard $30 billion over 20 years including maintenance and upgrades if the costs are right all of which is still up in the air , whatever, we spent about $20 billion in friken Afghanistan over the last 10 years and we don't even have a tail-feather to show for it.
Fact is our fighters are now old junk, do we go with cheaper 4th generation stuff that quite likely in 5 years will be so outdated that a tribe in Kenya will be able to shoot down? or pay a little more so we won't have to mourn our pilots. To me,it only takes the saving of one of our own to make it worth it.
The costs continually go up. Honestly I doubt that in five years tribe in Kenya is going to somehow be able to start shooting down planes because they are fourth generation - whatever that really even means, jargon which is lost on the masses.
It wouldn't suprise me if the whole thing was scrapped by the US as well at this rate, it seems unlikely they will need what looks increasingly likely to be a stop gap vehicle that will sit on the tarmac while its work is done by cheaper drones in a political and economic climate that makes war for a decade or more unlikley.
The government has long maintained the F-35 was the only plane that met Canada's needs. But last week, Gen. Tom Lawson, chief of the defence staff, told MPs that there are other planes with stealth capabilities.
Wait, what? Aren't the only NATO planes (because I don't think we want to procure from from the Chinese or the Russians) that have stealth the F-35, F-22, the F-117 and B-2?
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I heard $30 billion over 20 years including maintenance and upgrades if the costs are right all of which is still up in the air , whatever, we spent about $20 billion in friken Afghanistan over the last 10 years and we don't even have a tail-feather to show for it.
Fact is our fighters are now old junk, do we go with cheaper 4th generation stuff that quite likely in 5 years will be so outdated that a tribe in Kenya will be able to shoot down? or pay a little more so we won't have to mourn our pilots. To me,it only takes the saving of one of our own to make it worth it.
Depends who we plan on fighting. For anyone outside the first world/major powers we can assume that air defences have already been obliterated - see Iraq, Libya, Bosnia, etc. Standard modus operandi - all we need is a bomb truck like the CF 18.
Even for sophisticated adversaries do we expect to be among the first ones in on a hot war? I just don't see the need for a fifth gen plane. If the missions are so risky use drones
Depends who we plan on fighting. For anyone outside the first world/major powers we can assume that air defences have already been obliterated - see Iraq, Libya, Bosnia, etc. Standard modus operandi - all we need is a bomb truck like the CF 18.
Even for sophisticated adversaries do we expect to be among the first ones in on a hot war? I just don't see the need for a fifth gen plane. If the missions are so risky use drones
You can't make assumption like that.
Plus we were in on the initial work in Libya for example.
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With the heat the Tories are taking on this I don't see (politically) how they can pick the F-35. I truly believe that their bungling of this file may be their undoing. Hard to say you're the stewards of responsible budgeting and the leaders of fiscal prudence after something like this. Throw in the G-20 spending, robo-calls and omnibus bills and I think come 2015 Harper is out looking for a new job.
