Wear a poppy

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Judge the politicians all you want - respect the soldiers though and the sacrifices that they have made. I don't like coverage that talks about the glory of war where boys become men and blah blah blah. The best coverage of war is that which talks about the emotional impact of war, the men whose lives were changed forever and the comradery formed.

I would say going out of your way not to wear a poppy is disrespecting that, especially if it is to make some sort of political statement.

I don't wear one for many reasons. Politics is just part of it because politics chooses the battles. I am not here to debate my views on the military, just simply saying I don't wear a poppy.

Also I have not disrespected anyone for wearing a poppy, so in turn no one has the right to disrespect me for my choice either.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I don't wear one for many reasons. Politics is just part of it because politics chooses the battles. I am not here to debate my views on the military, just simply saying I don't wear a poppy.

Also I have not disrespected anyone for wearing a poppy, so in turn no one has the right to disrespect me for my choice either.

That isn't true at all - I completely disrespect your choice. Just having an opinion doesn't mean I have an obligation to respect your opinion.

Going out of your way not to show any respect is synonymous with showing disrespect for someone in my opinion.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

That isn't true at all - I completely disrespect your choice. Just having an opinion doesn't mean I have an obligation to respect your opinion.

Going out of your way not to show any respect is synonymous with showing disrespect for someone in my opinion.

Dude just give it up, making a choice not to wear something is not disrespectful. Calling someone disrespectful for staying true to their beliefs on the other hand is disrespectful. I am doing nothing to harm another person, while here you are on your high horse looking down on someone for having different values.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Fluffy Bunnies

Looks like we do agree on something. Next time say that first.

I do wear a poppy whenever possible, but like stated earlier, I have small children. I do donate to the Legion, etc... because I know the impact war has on the young men coming home. My one grandfather had PTSD bad after coming home from France and Germany. Had flashbacks till the day he died. My brother in law has no hardon for killing after doing 3 tours in Afghanistan.

Believe me, I do respect veterans. But Im not blind to the wars they fight.

As I say, Remembrance Day isn't the day for the glory of battle, the victories of the country - it is to remember the loss of the men, those who went and never came back or came back different men as you alluded to with PTSD.

There are other days to remember battles... November 11th is the day to remember the sacrifices of the men and women who fought.

[Forever Flames]

Originally Posted by Fluffy Bunnies

Actually, Im right. Read up on Japanese naval capabilities in the 1940s (by the way they did invade several Aleutian Islands. Thats Alaska, for the uninformed). While you are at it, try looking up German heavy water research (re: atomic bomb). There was very much a threat. Also, our ships are basically Canadian soil; its a direct attack on our sovereignty.

Happy reading! I am now done educating in this thread.

The Canadian Merchant Ships (equipped with military artillery) and the naval ships weren't out there minding their own business and all the sudden were attacked for no reason. They were there to support a war that had already been declared.

Similarly, Korea etc, we weren't there minding out own business, so consider them "Canadian soil" as well.

Your point would be valid if the Canadian ships were just out there for no reason and had no interest in the war, but they did. Germany didn't have nuclear capabilities prior to Canada investing itself in the war.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Fluffy Bunnies

Didnt the Germans attack Canadian merchant ships and naval vessels? Didnt the Japanese attack our soldiers directly in Hong Kong? Unless Im missing something. Seems like a threat to me. Looks like you are missing part of the picture.

Well I do think the part where we declared war on them might be something you are missing.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Fluffy Bunnies

Actually, Im right. Read up on Japanese naval capabilities in the 1940s (by the way they did invade several Aleutian Islands. Thats Alaska, for the uninformed). While you are at it, try looking up German heavy water research (re: atomic bomb). There was very much a threat. Also, our ships are basically Canadian soil; its a direct attack on our sovereignty.

Happy reading! I am now done educating in this thread.

Thank you for a perfect example showing us we need to educate Canadians about our role in previous wars.

I blame our schools for your poor knowledge on this topic.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Also I have not disrespected anyone for wearing a poppy, so in turn no one has the right to disrespect me for my choice either.

Freedom of speech and freedom from criticism are not the same thing.

You have the right not to wear a poppy. You have a right to your opinion on why you don't wear one. But if you express it and people disagree, you do not have the right not to be criticized for it.

[Magnum PEI]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I appreciate everything the older Vets did to preserve our freedom, but I never wear a poppy because I do not feel the same about the younger Vets as I don't feel any of the wars fought after WW2 were for the right reasons (although that is more politicians fault than the soldiers).

I totally disagree. Strategic bombing Yugoslavia because their military is going around slaughtering Muslim villages is much better than blindly following England in their quest to preserve their empire.
I actually put my change in the poppy containers now, though I will never wear one.

[Magnum PEI]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

As I say, Remembrance Day isn't the day for the glory of battle, the victories of the country - it is to remember the loss of the men, those who went and never came back or came back different men as you alluded to with PTSD.

There are other days to remember battles... November 11th is the day to remember the sacrifices of the men and women who fought.

If this were true there would be no fancy uniforms, no gold-fringed flags, and no polished medals on display.
I'd be willing to bet army recruitment goes up following Nov 11th.

[Redliner]

Ironic, isn't it? The men and women who should be honoured on Remembrance Day fought and/or died to preserve the freedom of those of you who are posting here contending that their sacrifice was hollow - for whatever reason. Sleep well tonight knowing that your right to be an idiot was won with their blood.

[CaptainCrunch]

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[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Freedom of speech and freedom from criticism are not the same thing.

You have the right not to wear a poppy. You have a right to your opinion on why you don't wear one. But if you express it and people disagree, you do not have the right not to be criticized for it.

This is another huge issue I have with anything military related, those who support it look down on those who don't. It's perfectly fine for them to look down on you and criticize your personal views but if I came back and criticized their views that support the military I would be shunned.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

This is another huge issue I have with anything military related, those who support it look down on those who don't. It's perfectly fine for them to look down on you and criticize your personal views but if I came back and criticized their views that support the military I would be shunned.

I don't think that I have shunned anyone - I said that I find it disrespectful to intentionally turn a symbol of remembrance for war dead into a political statement. Hate war all you want - most anyone who has been in war likely feels the same way actually. You likely find some of my views distasteful in the same way that I find yours to be, that is the nature of interpersonal relations, disagreement.

Just because you hold an opinion doesn't mean it is beyond reproach and that it is automatically valuable due to the mere fact that it is your opinion.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

This is another huge issue I have with anything military related, those who support it look down on those who don't. It's perfectly fine for them to look down on you and criticize your personal views but if I came back and criticized their views that support the military I would be shunned.

At the end of the day, if it wasn't for the WW2 vets, your life is nothing like what it resembles today. And you certainly are not posting in this forum. Our veterans, like them or not, have done, and do a dirty, dangerous, job that has to be done whether you agree with it or not.

Have some respect, and honour the vets. Many of them have seen horrors you could never fathom, all so they could win your freedom to complain about what they do.

We live in a frikkin society that honors a magical make believe fat man, with what seems like endless days of celebration who in reality was created to boost year end sales numbers for big box retailers. Yet we can't even make the time to throw a loony in a margarine tub, and don a cheap piece of red plastic on our lapels for just a couple weeks, to honour the past and present men, that give us the freedom and security to do so.

Just wear a damn poppy, and quit being such a bloody hippie.

[Magnum PEI]

So 700+ years of English law gets erased if Canada doesn't enter WW2? That's ridiculous. No rights were taken away during the Cold War, when the USSR was actually capable of attacking Canada.

[Jbo]

I wear a poppy to remember the sacrifices of those that came before me, and continue to sacrifice today. I hope that the meager quarters, loonies and townies, add up to something that gives some small gratitude back.

I like to buy poppies from the veterans themselves, when I have the chance. Usually in the malls rather then the store.

I feel sad, not because of what has occurred, or a specific conflict was fought....but that WHY these sacrifices were made seem lost on a new generation.

Never forget

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by pylon

At the end of the day, if it wasn't for the WW2 vets, your life is nothing like what it resembles today. And you certainly are not posting in this forum. Our veterans, like them or not, have done, and do a dirty, dangerous, job that has to be done whether you agree with it or not.

Have some respect, and honour the vets. Many of them have seen horrors you could never fathom, all so they could win your freedom to complain about what they do.

We live in a frikkin society that honors a magical make believe fat man, with what seems like endless days of celebration who in reality was created to boost year end sales numbers for big box retailers. Yet we can't even make the time to throw a loony in a margarine tub, and don a cheap piece of red plastic on our lapels for just a couple weeks, to honour the past and present men, that give us the freedom and security to do so.

Just wear a damn poppy, and quit being such a bloody hippie.

the present military does very little to insure our freedom though. I said in my first post that I respect when the older vets have done for us. But I do not support what the military stands for now. In fact I despise what the military now stands for.

And it's not like I didn't have family serve either. All 4 of my grandparents served, I know exactly (well as much as stories can tell) what they went through, so my decision is not an uneducated one nor one that I came to light hearted. And if my grandfathers who served can respect my choice people like you should be able to as well.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

the present military does very little to insure our freedom though. I said in my first post that I respect when the older vets have done for us. But I do not support what the military stands for now. In fact I despise what the military now stands for.

And it's not like I didn't have family serve either. All 4 of my grandparents served, I know exactly (well as much as stories can tell) what they went through, so my decision is not an uneducated one nor one that I came to light hearted. And if my grandfathers who served can respect my choice people like you should be able to as well.

Can you please explain what difference the military stood for before WW2 compared to now?

Cause what I see is a nation backing up one one of our founding nations that had a history of invading every country on this planet but 22.

Please give us another history lesson, this time on the valour of the Boer War versus the lack of valour in Afghanistan.

I really need your help here cause I dont see how you can square this logic circle of,"I only honour the worthwhile sacrifice but not the other".

If you had a stance that all war is bad and I refuse to be a part of it I could least get what is driving your opinion, but to me and it appears most of the other posters, it just doesn't make sense.

As a grandson of a Vimy Ridge vet and a great grandson of an RSM in the Boer War I would like to think I am coming from an educated stance too.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

So 700+ years of English law gets erased if Canada doesn't enter WW2? That's ridiculous. No rights were taken away during the Cold War, when the USSR was actually capable of attacking Canada.

Well, let's say Canada stays out of WWII. Does the US also stay out? (Assuming Pearl Harbor happened as a result of the US preparing to enter the war.) What about other medium strength powers like Australia, Brazil, etc?

Maybe the outcome of WWII would have been the same without Canada in it. But what would have happened if others had also followed Canada?

In any case, I wear my poppy to honour my grandfather. He did come home from WWII, but lives with the horrors he saw for the rest of his life.