Bulking while active with sports activites????

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Why don't we simplify this.

I'm saying that if you're in caloric neutral / maintenance you will gain the exact same amount of muscle that you would if you were eating in any range of a hypercaloric diet.

In other words, if you are eating enough to be gaining adipose tissue while you're gaining muscle then you're eating too much.

Okay, we'll simplify.

If they eat a hypercaloric diet, most people will gain muscle mass faster than if they eat a maintenance diet.

Also, a maintenance diet for someone gaining muscle mass requires significantly more calories than someone who is at a stable muscle mass.

So either way, eating more helps you gain muscle. And doesn't make you an idiot.

In fact, eating more without even doing any resistance training will cause most healthy people to gain muscle mass. I'd say that's pretty much the definition of eating more helping you to gain muscle. You know, when eating more directly causes you to gain more muscle.

You can say something like "You don't absolutely need to gain adipose tissue to gain muscle mass."
That is correct.

However, you said "If you think eating more helps you gain muscle, you are an idiot."
That is incorrect. I've explained why.
You also said "the idea that you [need extra calories to build muscle] is completely baseless. It's just not true."
That is also incorrect. I've also explained why this is.

So to summarize:
If you want to gain a lot of muscle mass quickly, I recommend you eat lots of food.

[expatflame]

4 pages in and still no one has posted a Joker Big Mac gif?

[Rocky Raccoon]

There has been a ton of support and expertise provided to the OP in this thread; great work everyone!

I have some questions as well but I'm coming from the other end of the spectrum than the OP.

I have never worked out in my life but always played a ton of sports up until 8 years ago; I am 33.

I am 6'4" and 260lbs. I am naturally built with a larger frame, I'm not a skinny guy with a huge gut. I work a desk job and so I'm not out there building muscle busting my butt, so no idea why I have more muscle than other people.

I have strong tree trunk legs, as previously mentioned never worked out, just born that way. I carry the weight all over and if you looked at me you would never know I weigh that much. I'm just average but larger...not sure how else to explain it.

Anyway, I don't think it would be difficult for me turn all of this into more or larger muscle but I have no idea how or where to start. I don't have any friends here that work out and I feel awkward even thinking about walking into a gym.

Is there any way to do this from home and what kind of a plan would I need to look like Chris Hemsworth from Thor? Well I mean apart from the reconstructive face surgery. We'll call it a gift for my wife.

[FanIn80]

You could try something like this http://www.buycostumes.com/The-Aveng...uctDetail.aspx

(Seriously, though. This is a great thread. I'm really enjoying the read so far. Well, except for the bit about not needing to eat more in order to gain muscle.)

[Rocky Raccoon]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

You could try something like this http://www.buycostumes.com/The-Aveng...uctDetail.aspx

(Seriously, though. This is a great thread. I'm really enjoying the read so far. Well, except for the bit about not needing to eat more in order to gain muscle.)

I could try that, but I still need to be able to fill it out properly :P

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Rocky Raccoon

There has been a ton of support and expertise provided to the OP in this thread; great work everyone!

I have some questions as well but I'm coming from the other end of the spectrum than the OP.

I have never worked out in my life but always played a ton of sports up until 8 years ago; I am 33.

I am 6'4" and 260lbs. I am naturally built with a larger frame, I'm not a skinny guy with a huge gut. I work a desk job and so I'm not out there building muscle busting my butt, so no idea why I have more muscle than other people.

I have strong tree trunk legs, as previously mentioned never worked out, just born that way. I carry the weight all over and if you looked at me you would never know I weigh that much. I'm just average but larger...not sure how else to explain it.

Anyway, I don't think it would be difficult for me turn all of this into more or larger muscle but I have no idea how or where to start. I don't have any friends here that work out and I feel awkward even thinking about walking into a gym.

Is there any way to do this from home and what kind of a plan would I need to look like Chris Hemsworth from Thor? Well I mean apart from the reconstructive face surgery. We'll call it a gift for my wife.

you need to just research, get to the gym and start talking to guys that look like they know their stuff. you are a big dude so you may want to hit the cardio fairly hard but make sure you are also lifting lots. squats, deadlifts, cleans, etc. do full body lifts that target many muscle groups will really help you.

dont workout from home, youll be less motivated and have less equipment available. get to a gym, meet some new people, make new friends and lift heavy.

disregard skinnies, acquire aesthetics.

[Azure]

Starting Strength. Buy the book. Do the program. It works.

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by Azure

Starting Strength. Buy the book. Do the program. It works.

Starting strength is a good place for a beginner to start. It will help him learn the lift with proper technique and help him good a build base of strength. It would probably even be more usefull for a person like him looking to improve performance in his sport. However if a person wants to get big and bulky and move away from training for performance aspects of lifting he should start looking up some hyptertrophy programs.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

If they eat a hypercaloric diet, most people will gain muscle mass faster than if they eat a maintenance diet.

This is idiotic. Muscle hypertrophy is not dependent on an excess of calories. Muscles require a certain amount of things to reach their full potential; enough protein and other macro/micro nutrients. Exceeding these will not help. That's why it's called a hypercaloric diet. You're getting too much of something.

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

In fact, eating more without even doing any resistance training will cause most healthy people to gain muscle mass. I'd say that's pretty much the definition of eating more helping you to gain muscle. You know, when eating more directly causes you to gain more muscle.

This is even more idiotic. This is saying you are in a constant deficit of something. Or suggesting that muscles act exactly like fat, and the only requirement is calories to gain extra.

The only situation where eating something alone will help you build muscle (or rather, stop you from losing it) aside from starvation is in sarcopenia in the elderly where extra dietary protein has been shown to attenuate atrophy.

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

However, you said "If you think eating more helps you gain muscle, you are an idiot."
That is incorrect. I've explained why.
You also said "the idea that you [need extra calories to build muscle] is completely baseless. It's just not true."
That is also incorrect. I've also explained why this is.

You haven't explained anything. You've made vague points about the endocrine side of things with mentions of sarcomeres and myofibrils without actually delving into the physiology of why muscle hypertrophy is more effective with excess calories. How does gaining adipose tissue at the same time help you build muscle?

I'm going to dig up some studies for explanations on muscle hypertrophy, but I doubt they'll mention anything about requiring extra; they'll just say what the muscle needs and if these are fulfilled (ie not exceeded), then maximum growth is achieved. Show me some studies showing your points. If you're as educated as you say you are then this shouldn't be an issue.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Taking a break from the debate for a second.

To the OP:
Exercise. Keep it simple. There are a million ways to strength train and the bottom line is that all of them work. Some are more effective than others, sure, but it's extremely difficult to know which.

Focus on doing what you enjoy so that you can maintain it. This biggest issue with strength training for most is that they stop doing it. Find something you will keep doing, and a few months down the road you can start tweaking it and trying to reach your full potential.

[TheSutterDynasty]

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fu...rmance.27.aspx

Athletes do not need a diet substantially different from that recommended in the Dietary Guidelines for Americans

Resistance exercise may necessitate protein intake in excess of the RDA, as well as that needed for endurance exercise, because additional protein, essential amino acids in particular, is needed along with sufficient energy to support muscle growth (30,31). This is particularly true in the early phase of strength training when the most significant gains in muscle size occurs. The amount of protein needed to maintain muscle mass may be lower for individuals who routinely resistance train because of more efficient protein use (30,31). Recommended protein intakes for strength-trained athletes range from approximately 1.2 to 1.7 g·kg-1·d-1 (30,32).

The ACSM is the gold standard in the States for fitness guidelines. You'd think if this "hypercaloric diet = more muscle" was true, news would have reached them.

I would love to find studies that compare hypercaloric vs maintenance diets for fat free mass (muscle) gains, but I can't. As far as I know, there is absolutely no physiology backing up this stance and it is therefore not worth it to study.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Rocky Raccoon

Is there any way to do this from home and what kind of a plan would I need to look like Chris Hemsworth from Thor? Well I mean apart from the reconstructive face surgery. We'll call it a gift for my wife.

P90x does all this and I've never heard anyone say anything negative about the program. It takes all the guess work out and provides the full package: strength, cardio and flexibility. All you need is floor space, chin-up bar, yoga mat and some dumbbells.

There's an old cp thread all about it: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=41250

[hkstylez]

Originally Posted by Rocky Raccoon

There has been a ton of support and expertise provided to the OP in this thread; great work everyone!

I have some questions as well but I'm coming from the other end of the spectrum than the OP.

I have never worked out in my life but always played a ton of sports up until 8 years ago; I am 33.

I am 6'4" and 260lbs. I am naturally built with a larger frame, I'm not a skinny guy with a huge gut. I work a desk job and so I'm not out there building muscle busting my butt, so no idea why I have more muscle than other people.

I have strong tree trunk legs, as previously mentioned never worked out, just born that way. I carry the weight all over and if you looked at me you would never know I weigh that much. I'm just average but larger...not sure how else to explain it.

Anyway, I don't think it would be difficult for me turn all of this into more or larger muscle but I have no idea how or where to start. I don't have any friends here that work out and I feel awkward even thinking about walking into a gym.

Is there any way to do this from home and what kind of a plan would I need to look like Chris Hemsworth from Thor? Well I mean apart from the reconstructive face surgery. We'll call it a gift for my wife.

http://weightlossandtraining.com/chr...h-thor-workout

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by NBC

I realize that this is terribly off topic but my understanding is that you should not be keeping cooked rice around, even if it is properly stored in the fridge, for longer than 48 hours. This is due to the presence of Bacillus cereus.

http://www.foodsafety.gov/poisoning/...eus/index.html

According to the FDA:

In 1980, 9 outbreaks were reported to the Centers for Disease Control and included such foods as beef, turkey, and Mexican foods. In 1981, 8 outbreaks were reported which primarily involved rice and shellfish.

http://www.fda.gov/food/foodsafety/f.../ucm070492.htm

Hardly something I would worry about if you are capable of putting stuff away in the fridge after you've cooked it.

[trew]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fu...rmance.27.aspx





The ACSM is the gold standard in the States for fitness guidelines. You'd think if this "hypercaloric diet = more muscle" was true, news would have reached them.

I would love to find studies that compare hypercaloric vs maintenance diets for fat free mass (muscle) gains, but I can't. As far as I know, there is absolutely no physiology backing up this stance and it is therefore not worth it to study.

In page 1 of the article you link, the second "Key Point" is

* Athletes need to consume adequate energy during periods of high-intensity and/or long-duration training to maintain body weight and health and maximize training effects. Low energy intakes can result in loss of muscle mass; menstrual dysfunction; loss of or failure to gain bone density; an increased risk of fatigue, injury, and illness; and a prolonged recovery process.

And in case anyone wants to jump on the fact that this key point doesn't say "during and after" exercise, the article does mention in the contents that:

It is unnecessary for athletes who rest one or more days between intense training sessions to practice nutrient timing about glycogen replenishment provided sufficient carbohydrates are consumed during the 24-h period after the exercise bout

So, given all of this, if I said that in order to gain muscle a person needs to
a) Train muscles to the point of breakdown and repair and
b) eat enough extra calories to maintain their body mass given the extra energy requirements of training.

Would you disagree?

If not, then I think this may be a semantic argument about whether "eating more calories to support muscle growth" does or does not mean the same thing as "eating maintenance calories to support activity level". Does it really matter?

At the end of the day, both involve eating more food.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Matata

P90x does all this and I've never heard anyone say anything negative about the program. It takes all the guess work out and provides the full package: strength, cardio and flexibility. All you need is floor space, chin-up bar, yoga mat and some dumbbells.

There's an old cp thread all about it: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=41250

I actually did p90x and did get results from it, but the program gets very repetitive very quickly. By the end of the program I was thoroughly sick of the videos, and because of this I don't view it as a sustainable program. It's a great program to get people motivated to work out though. Since then I've started doing Crossfit from home, and have been getting good results for several years now. The variety in the program helps keep me from getting bored, and there is a wealth of information in the Crossfit community. The biggest drawback for a guy working out from home is probably the amount of necessary equipment, but most of the workouts can be done with an Olympic weight set, a squat rack, some dumbbells and a pull up bar. For the most part I've been following Crossfit Football's programming, but there are tons of other sites you can follow depending on your specific fitness goals.

[hesh329]

Originally Posted by Rocky Raccoon

There has been a ton of support and expertise provided to the OP in this thread; great work everyone!

I have some questions as well but I'm coming from the other end of the spectrum than the OP.

I have never worked out in my life but always played a ton of sports up until 8 years ago; I am 33.

I am 6'4" and 260lbs. I am naturally built with a larger frame, I'm not a skinny guy with a huge gut. I work a desk job and so I'm not out there building muscle busting my butt, so no idea why I have more muscle than other people.

I have strong tree trunk legs, as previously mentioned never worked out, just born that way. I carry the weight all over and if you looked at me you would never know I weigh that much. I'm just average but larger...not sure how else to explain it.

Anyway, I don't think it would be difficult for me turn all of this into more or larger muscle but I have no idea how or where to start. I don't have any friends here that work out and I feel awkward even thinking about walking into a gym.

Is there any way to do this from home and what kind of a plan would I need to look like Chris Hemsworth from Thor? Well I mean apart from the reconstructive face surgery. We'll call it a gift for my wife.

Diet is always key to losing weight or gaining, think Pareto's Principle 80% of your results come from 20% of what you do. If I were you eat lots of protein, vegetables (80% veggies and 20% fruit) and healthy fats (olive oils and avacados and fish). Take a fish oil, lots of research out there about the benefits as well as speeding up your metabolism. Cut complex carbs (breads, pasta) out from breakfast eat eggs or greek yogurt, and fruit for breakfast. Start hitting the gym 3 times a week and take a post workout shake. Lots of great information out there on Nutrient timing and eating for body type can help. Also start with one small habit per week or month, master that and then start another one.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Breakfast.. Scramble up half a carton of egg whites. Package of oatmeal w peanut butter

Chicken, 1 cup veggies, 1 cup whole wheat pasta... 3 times throughout the day. Use tomato based sauce with a tbsp or 2 of Evoo

45g whey powder w/ skim milk after a workout or whenever you want on non training days

Snack on veggies throughout the day if you want. Have some fruit and 45g casein w water before bed

Should do alright . .

[firebird]

As a former goalie I would like to add that flexibility and reflexes are obviously very important, and you should remember to stretch a lot before and after your workouts. Lots of guys seem to get slow and lose range of motion when they get bigger. If your going to a gym, make sure you talk to a trainer and get a workout that will keep or improve your speed, flexibility and reflexes as well as building your size.

[Azure]

Static stretching before a workout has been proven to not be beneficial at all, and can increase the chances of getting injured. Go for dynamic stretches. Static stretching in the middle or after your workout when your muscles are warm.