You guys don't get it. Today that word gets tossed around almost as if it's acceptable. Obviously, you shouldn't go around calling gay people "###s" (I've said it enough). It's hard to explain, but if somebody called me a ### because I socked them in the arm, it carries a different meaning than, say, if I gave him a smooch on the lips and he proceeded to call me a ###
Of course I'm not homophobic. However, you have to look at the context in which the word is said. If another student took my hat and I said "give it back, ya ###" and he turned out to be gay, of course I would feel like crap for calling him that and give him a sincere apology. If I knew the guy was straight and was simply being an arsehole, then I couldn't care less. I try my hardest not to offend anybody and I only use that word around my close friends (the only place you should ever use that word if you're not looking to offend somebody), not complete random kids that I do not know.
Obviously if I was trying to offend somebody, then what I am doing would be wrong on so many levels. But I'm not trying to offend anybody, that person is just being a ###. (see below)
When I use the word - 100% of the time: Fag = arsehole, tool, ######bag, dumbass.
This is sort of like the "gay = stupid" thing that's been floating around forever now. Ex) After an underwhelming fireworks performance: "that was gay."
I understand what you're saying, and I agree that those words have different meanings depending on the context. But not everyone knows what you're thinking when they hear you say it. Your friends might, but other people probably don't.
So I get your crusade against the definition of "fag" and "gay" but you have to employ some tact when using it. Just because you're not offended or you find it funny doesn't mean that some large dude with a poor temper feels the same.
The episode of South Park on the "fag" was great, and it had a good message but it's not free license to just go around saying it assuming everyone else understands your context.
How how this, is there any context where it would be appropriate for YOU to say it? Especially one that would be like the way you used the word fag in your previous post.
I had a Jamaican friend that let us call him that. I didn't like it, and it made me feel uncomfortable because I knew what it meant.
However, I knew that word was unacceptable before I knew what it really meant. I have been calling my friends (and enemies) fags since the 3rd grade. I simply thought it was another acceptable way of saying "you're an arsehole" until I learned what it really meant in grade 7. After that I curbed my production of the word and only used it around my friends. Then they too learned what it meant and all hell broke loose.
Simply put, it's unfair to contrast the two situations. I knew that the n-word was bad before I learned what it meant but I tossed around the word fag for years before I was told what it actually meant. To me, a fag is somebody who's being a dumbass and an arsehole at the same time. Not somebody batting for the other team. That's the way it's been for me and everybody else I hang out with for as long as we can remember.
You guys don't get it. Today that word gets tossed around almost as if it's acceptable. Obviously, you shouldn't go around calling gay people "###s" (I've said it enough). It's hard to explain, but if somebody called me a ### because I socked them in the arm, it carries a different meaning than, say, if I gave him a smooch on the lips and he proceeded to call me a ###
Of course I'm not homophobic. However, you have to look at the context in which the word is said. If another student took my hat and I said "give it back, ya ###" and he turned out to be gay, of course I would feel like crap for calling him that and give him a sincere apology. If I knew the guy was straight and was simply being an arsehole, then I couldn't care less. I try my hardest not to offend anybody and I only use that word around my close friends (the only place you should ever use that word if you're not looking to offend somebody), not complete random kids that I do not know.
Obviously if I was trying to offend somebody, then what I am doing would be wrong on so many levels. But I'm not trying to offend anybody, that person is just being a ###. (see below)
When I use the word - 100% of the time: Fag = arsehole, tool, ######bag, dumbass.
This is sort of like the "gay = stupid" thing that's been floating around forever now. Ex) After an underwhelming fireworks performance: "that was gay."
Look, I get why you say it, I really do. It's built into the language that you have grown up with without ever thinking about what it means.
What I am saying is that when you say it, you are insulting gay people by insinuating they are bad, stupid, #######s etc.
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I had a Jamaican friend that let us call him that. I didn't like it, and it made me feel uncomfortable because I knew what it meant.
However, I knew that word was unacceptable before I knew what it really meant. I have been calling my friends (and enemies) fags since the 3rd grade. I simply thought it was another acceptable way of saying "you're an arsehole" until I learned what it really meant in grade 7. After that I curbed my production of the word and only used it around my friends. Then they too learned what it meant and all hell broke loose.
Simply put, it's unfair to contrast the two situations. I knew that the n-word was bad before I learned what it meant but I tossed around the word fag for years before I was told what it actually meant. To me, a fag is somebody who's being a dumbass and an arsehole at the same time. Not somebody batting for the other team. That's the way it's been for me and everybody else I hang out with for as long as we can remember.
It isn't unfair to compare the words because they do the same thing, degrade the people
I am not condemning you for it, because like you said, you didn't realize what was so bad about it, I was simply trying to point out what it was really saying when you said that.
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I'm not trying to offend anybody. I feel really bad for the guy, bullying sucks and I know what it feels like. But obviously the times have changed. "Fag" evolved into another generic insult you hurl at anybody, like stupid or dumbass, in the past number of years or so. At my school, it has gotten to the point where just about everybody uses it.
I actually know another student who came out last Christmas. The other day I heard him tell another classmate to "stop being a fag." This was before this thread was started, so I didn't think much of it, but I did find it amusing to hear a gay guy use that word. I'm not going to call him a fag of course, because I know of his sexual preference and I accept that. But the fact that he called another student it makes me realize that the word has a new meaning that has nothing to do with homosexuality.
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I actually know another student who came out last Christmas. The other day I heard him tell another classmate to "stop being a fag." This was before this thread was started, so I didn't think much of it, but I did find it amusing to hear a gay guy use that word. I'm not going to call him a fag of course, because I know of his sexual preference and I accept that. But the fact that he called another student it makes me realize that the word has a new meaning that has nothing to do with homosexuality.
I call BS. If a gay guy uses that word then he's an idiot.
I call BS. If a gay guy uses that word then he's an idiot.
I heard him say it almost in a positive tone, like he was joking with the other kid. The other guy was going on about something nonsensical and that whole corner of the classroom was listening and laughing to what he was saying.
The gay kid was laughing with the rest of the kids too, so I'm sure he meant it as in "shut up, stupid" although I found it odd that he used the word "fag"
I remember he came out publicly on Facebook, this was just after Christmas and when we returned from the break he was more outgoing than before. Can't help but feel good for him. He's more comfortable with himself now than before. He picked up the other meaning of the word fag and I guess it doesn't offend him in that context. But if somebody were to go up to his face and call him a ####ing ######, that would be awful and I'm sure he wouldn't like it. (Hence the reason why I only use that word around people I know that won't get offended by it.)
And yes, those words came from his mouth. I was watching the guy who was talking, and the gay kid turned around and told him to stop being a fag.
Whatever your name is - Bob, Jim, John - take that word. As of tomorrow, everyone in the world recognizes that word, by which you identify yourself, to mean "d-bag, a$$hole, dumba$$, stupid" and a host of other negative things. Most of the time your name is used, it's being used in that context.
How great would you feel about that?
Basically, "fag" has about the same status as "nigg_r" for me - you can say whatever you feel like saying, but if you say it around me, I'm going to think less of you as a human being.
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Whatever your name is - Bob, Jim, John - take that word. As of tomorrow, everyone in the world recognizes that word, by which you identify yourself, to mean "d-bag, a$$hole, dumba$$, stupid" and a host of other negative things. Most of the time your name is used, it's being used in that context.
How great would you feel about that?
Basically, "fag" has about the same status as "nigg_r" for me - you can say whatever you feel like saying, but if you say it around me, I'm going to think less of you as a human being.
Christ, you people are acting as if I stood in front of my school assembly and called everyone a fag. Why does it matter what names get tossed around in my circle of friends? Nobody is trying to offend anyone. I have nothing against gay people.
Your name analogy makes no sense. You're saying that whatever name I use to identify myself is now another term for stupid, dumbass, etc. If you identify yourself as a "fag" instead of gay/LGBT/homosexual, then you friggin' deserve to be called a fag. If you prefer to be called a derogatory slur instead of an acceptable term, then I'm going to think less of you as a human being.
Your name analogy makes no sense. You're saying that whatever name I use to identify myself is now another term for stupid, dumbass, etc. If you identify yourself as a "fag" instead of gay/LGBT/homosexual, then you friggin' deserve to be called a fag. If you prefer to be called a derogatory slur instead of an acceptable term, then I'm going to think less of you as a human being.
Seriously? What's the word of the day, again? "Obtuse"?
Whatever your name is - Bob, Jim, John - take that word. As of tomorrow, everyone in the world recognizes that word, by which you identify yourself, to mean "d-bag, a$$hole, dumba$$, stupid" and a host of other negative things. Most of the time your name is used, it's being used in that context.
How great would you feel about that?
Dick, anyone?
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You guys don't get it. Today that word gets tossed around almost as if it's acceptable. Obviously, you shouldn't go around calling gay people "###s" (I've said it enough). It's hard to explain, but if somebody called me a ### because I socked them in the arm, it carries a different meaning than, say, if I gave him a smooch on the lips and he proceeded to call me a ###
Of course I'm not homophobic. However, you have to look at the context in which the word is said. If another student took my hat and I said "give it back, ya ###" and he turned out to be gay, of course I would feel like crap for calling him that and give him a sincere apology. If I knew the guy was straight and was simply being an arsehole, then I couldn't care less. I try my hardest not to offend anybody and I only use that word around my close friends (the only place you should ever use that word if you're not looking to offend somebody), not complete random kids that I do not know.
Obviously if I was trying to offend somebody, then what I am doing would be wrong on so many levels. But I'm not trying to offend anybody, that person is just being a ###. (see below)
When I use the word - 100% of the time: Fag = arsehole, tool, ######bag, dumbass.
This is sort of like the "gay = stupid" thing that's been floating around forever now. Ex) After an underwhelming fireworks performance: "that was gay."
You are saying that us old folks don't get it. I am more than twenty years older than you, and trust me, I get it. It is the same way the word was used when I was in school. It was used to call someone stupid, it was used to call someone girly, it was used anytime you didn't agree with something. It was always used as an insult and always used in a way to say that whatever you were talking about was not normal and not the way things should be.
It is the exact way that Escobar used it. Your defence of your usage sound almost exactly like what he said. “It’s just been said around amongst the Latinos. It’s not something that’s meant to be offensive. For us, it didn’t have the significance in the way that’s being interpreted. It’s a word used often within teams (and here he shrugged). It’s a word without meaning.” He was in the wrong, and he was suspended for it. To me, you sound exactly like him.
All of the gay people I have known have gone through a period before coming out where it was generally assumed that they were straight. In many cases, they dated girls/women before they realized themselves that they were gay. Given that they all would have experienced the same thing that you say is still common where using the words gay & fag were used to insult someone, they had difficulty coming out. They were all called gay by people who claim they were not homophobic. I don't know all of their stories completely, but I am pretty sure every single one of them had difficulty coming out and fear of how people would take it because of all the subtle homophobia that surrounds us. It is quite possible that one of your close friends that you think is straight is in fact gay.
You say that you would feel bad if you found out that you said that to someone that was in fact gay. The thing is, you don't know if someone is in the closet. You don't know if they are questioning their sexuality privately. You don't know if you are contributing to their depression.
The reasons that organizations such as You Can Play exist, is to combat this subtle homophobia. You may think it is nothing. I'd wager that at least 99% of the time, your words are taken the way that you think. But those last few times where it isn't can be extremely damaging. This is why it is unacceptable.
Anyway, to stay on topic. Although what happened to this guy was clearly wrong, he should just let it go. Bullying really sucks, but you can't expect a school to pay to try to make things right 40 years later. Those responsible should have been reprimanded at the time (students, teachers & administration). Now they all likely have nothing to do with this school.
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You are saying that us old folks don't get it. I am more than twenty years older than you, and trust me, I get it. It is the same way the word was used when I was in school. It was used to call someone stupid, it was used to call someone girly, it was used anytime you didn't agree with something. It was always used as an insult and always used in a way to say that whatever you were talking about was not normal and not the way things should be.
It is the exact way that Escobar used it. Your defence of your usage sound almost exactly like what he said. “It’s just been said around amongst the Latinos. It’s not something that’s meant to be offensive. For us, it didn’t have the significance in the way that’s being interpreted. It’s a word used often within teams (and here he shrugged). It’s a word without meaning.” He was in the wrong, and he was suspended for it. To me, you sound exactly like him.
All of the gay people I have known have gone through a period before coming out where it was generally assumed that they were straight. In many cases, they dated girls/women before they realized themselves that they were gay. Given that they all would have experienced the same thing that you say is still common where using the words gay & fag were used to insult someone, they had difficulty coming out. They were all called gay by people who claim they were not homophobic. I don't know all of their stories completely, but I am pretty sure every single one of them had difficulty coming out and fear of how people would take it because of all the subtle homophobia that surrounds us. It is quite possible that one of your close friends that you think is straight is in fact gay.
You say that you would feel bad if you found out that you said that to someone that was in fact gay. The thing is, you don't know if someone is in the closet. You don't know if they are questioning their sexuality privately. You don't know if you are contributing to their depression.
The reasons that organizations such as You Can Play exist, is to combat this subtle homophobia. You may think it is nothing. I'd wager that at least 99% of the time, your words are taken the way that you think. But those last few times where it isn't can be extremely damaging. This is why it is unacceptable.
Anyway, to stay on topic. Although what happened to this guy was clearly wrong, he should just let it go. Bullying really sucks, but you can't expect a school to pay to try to make things right 40 years later. Those responsible should have been reprimanded at the time (students, teachers & administration). Now they all likely have nothing to do with this school.
good post
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You guys don't get it. Today that word gets tossed around almost as if it's acceptable. Obviously, you shouldn't go around calling gay people "###s" (I've said it enough). It's hard to explain, but if somebody called me a ### because I socked them in the arm, it carries a different meaning than, say, if I gave him a smooch on the lips and he proceeded to call me a ###
Of course I'm not homophobic. However, you have to look at the context in which the word is said. If another student took my hat and I said "give it back, ya ###" and he turned out to be gay, of course I would feel like crap for calling him that and give him a sincere apology. If I knew the guy was straight and was simply being an arsehole, then I couldn't care less. I try my hardest not to offend anybody and I only use that word around my close friends (the only place you should ever use that word if you're not looking to offend somebody), not complete random kids that I do not know.
Obviously if I was trying to offend somebody, then what I am doing would be wrong on so many levels. But I'm not trying to offend anybody, that person is just being a ###. (see below)
When I use the word - 100% of the time: Fag = arsehole, tool, ######bag, dumbass.
This is sort of like the "gay = stupid" thing that's been floating around forever now. Ex) After an underwhelming fireworks performance: "that was gay."
Why would you feel bad if you called someone gay, and they turned out to be gay? Are gay people lower in society than straight people?
When you started posting in this thread, all I could think of was this commercial. They even have your age correct.
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