Lock out notice to the STH?

[EddyBeers]

So is there no option to leave your minimum deposit with the Flames so that the owners have enough money to survive the lockout and take the rest back yourself?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Their commitment to us was to play 41 hockey games, and allow us to watch in exchange for money. If they're going to break their commitment to us, why should they force us to remain committed to them?

They're not forcing anyone to do anything. They will let you cancel your account and receive a refund of all money paid. If you do so, you will no longer have an account with them, and will lose any seniority that your account may have.

As games are cancelled, they will refund the cost of those games. If you do nothing, they'll credit your account for that money and pay 3% interest on it. The money in your account will be held and applied to future payments. If you want the money refunded immediately, you can request that as well.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Their commitment to us was to play 41 hockey games, and allow us to watch in exchange for money. If they're going to break their commitment to us, why should they force us to remain committed to them?

They haven't - you are free to cancel.

[Laner99]

Originally Posted by getbak

I don't see anything wrong with it. If you ask for a full refund of all money paid, you're canceling your account. Why would you have any expectations of your account and seniority remaining after you've cancelled?

You dont see anything wrong with this set up? Let's change the situation and put it into another business situation and see if this makes sense.

So you buy a truck and are leasing the truck for monthly payments of $1000 per month. Then all of a sudden your truck has a safety issue at no fault to you and the manufacture requires that you return the truck to get it fix. They dont know how long you will be without your truck, maybe a week, maybe a month, maybe a year. But while they have your truck they still want you to make the $1000 monthly payments on the truck. Even though you have no truck to drive you still have to pay for it. But for each day you dont have your truck they will give you 3% on the dollar for the payments you have made and eventually credit you the difference on future payments or in the event that you want to buy more trucks from them.

Does that sound fair. Chances are you wouldnt be very happy.

[kipperfan]

If the Flames were simply following along with every other team in the league I would have no issue with their plan. But they’re not; we’ve already discovered the Oilers, Kings and Wild all have much better offers to their STH’s then anything the Flames have offered. I won’t say much more on the topic until I’ve been able to check out what most, if not all the other teams in the league are doing. Needless to say, if the Flames offering turns out to be one of the worst I am going to find that pretty darn bush league.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

If the Flames were simply following along with every other team in the league I would have no issue with their plan. But they’re not; we’ve already discovered the Oilers, Kings and Wild all have much better offers to their STH’s then anything the Flames have offered. I won’t say much more on the topic until I’ve been able to check out what most, if not all the other teams in the league are doing. Needless to say, if the Flames offering turns out to be one of the worst I am going to find that pretty darn bush league.

I'm sure you're going to miss that extra $1 or $5 interest payment on cancelled games each month.

You guys sound like whiny babies.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Their commitment to us was to play 41 hockey games, and allow us to watch in exchange for money. If they're going to break their commitment to us, why should they force us to remain committed to them?

Enter the fine print. They may refuse you entry by refunding your ticket. That's basically what is happening here.

[edn88]

Originally Posted by Laner99

You dont see anything wrong with this set up? Let's change the situation and put it into another business situation and see if this makes sense.

So you buy a truck and are leasing the truck for monthly payments of $1000 per month. Then all of a sudden your truck has a safety issue at no fault to you and the manufacture requires that you return the truck to get it fix. They dont know how long you will be without your truck, maybe a week, maybe a month, maybe a year. But while they have your truck they still want you to make the $1000 monthly payments on the truck. Even though you have no truck to drive you still have to pay for it. But for each day you dont have your truck they will give you 3% on the dollar for the payments you have made and eventually credit you the difference on future payments or in the event that you want to buy more trucks from them.
.

The truck vs tickets analogy doesn't really work. In this case you can have your money back if you want it, but if you want to stay a ticket holder with your same seats, you need to keep money in their bank to show that you will be back, otherwise they have to go sell your ticket to someone else. What they are doing is giving you some interest on your tickets, since they are not paying that money out.

As a STH, I am happy with the communication I got this morning, and feel equipped to decide to either get a refund or not (at this point not). If I was truly pissed that there was going to be no season, I would ask for a refund to protest, knowing that someone else will snap up my tickets. At this point I am happy to see how it plays out. I wouldn't actually mind seeing a 60 game season (72 would be perfect).

[geos]

My biggest issue is that the games in the second half are definitely far inferior to the home games in the first half. If they simply cancelled the first half of the season, we'd be losing alot of Washington, Vancouver, Boston, Toronto and Montreal in exchange for Columbus, Phoenix and Colorado.

To be honest, I'm a STH because I like getting the premium games for a good price. There is no value in me paying the STH price for the last half of the year.

I guess it all comes down to when/if the lockout ends if I remain on. I'm not paying for a bunch of crappy second half games though.

[Rhettzky]

Here is a very rough list I put together by searching HF forums for 'season tickets'.

Minnesota wild - Payments suspended and 10% interest applied.
Anaheim ducks - 5% interest applied.
Los angels kings - Payments suspended and paid 5% interest applied.
Columbus blue jackets - Once 60% paid, payments suspended and 4% interest applied.
Carolina hurricanes - Payments suspended and 3% interest applied.
Montreal canadians - 3% interest applied.
Winnipeg Jets - Payments continuing and 3% interest applied.
Boston bruins - Payments continuing and 3% interest applied.
Calgary flames - Payments continuing and 3% interest applied.
New York rangers - Payments suspended and 2% interest applied.
Chicago blackhawks - 2% interest applied.
Nashville predators - Payments suspended

I also saw some info on the Rangers sub-forum about a bunch of fans putting stop payments season ticket fees through their credit card companies.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by MrCallahan

I was a bit taken back by this question:

8) How do I ensure I keep my rights to my seats for future seasons?

Refunds will be offered for any cancelled games. Requesting a refund of your entire payment will result in the loss of your ticket allotment and seniority?

Is it just me, or is that an ass move?

It's just you.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I'm sure you're going to miss that extra $1 or $5 interest payment on cancelled games each month.

You guys sound like whiny babies.

Meh, the Flames owners are looking for an extra 11 dollars per game per fan by reducing the players share to 48%. Too bad they could not just stop being whiny babies and settle for a 6 dollar per game per fan reduction in the players share and settle at 52% share for the players and start the season already. Not sure why a STH's money is less valuable than the owners money. If a season ticket holder does not miss the 5 bucks per game, surely the owners wouldn't either.

[ken0042]

I was also satisfied that the email was sent out today. Let upper management (Ken King) focus on last minute negotiations with other owners. Heck- there was even a chance (Dumb and Dumber chance) that one side could have caved in yesterday.

The other thing is there could still be a season. IIRC in 94-95 the season went on a little longer than usual to accomidate those games. There is nothing stopping them from having a shortened pre-season, and still starting on time. Nor is there any reason why we can't have an 82 game schedule that starts on November 1st.

For those of us on the payment plan, there was no stopping the September 15th payment. We have a full month until the next payment is due, and we can explore everything at that point.

I do also recall that King once said that in 04-05; something like 90-95% of season ticket holders had the Flames hang onto all deposits. Why come up with complicated and/or several refund options for the small percentage who would actually use it? And why do that prior to knowing that the season isn't going to start on time.

Do I think it's going to start on time; or close to it? No. I say December or January. But gut insticnts are not how you run a $100M business.

[hillspeak]

With the STH notice from the Flames I would have liked to have been offered a Ticket Package for the Hitmen at a reduced rate. Even a 10 game flex pack for like $90.00.


Just a little something in return.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by geos

My biggest issue is that the games in the second half are definitely far inferior to the home games in the first half. If they simply cancelled the first half of the season, we'd be losing alot of Washington, Vancouver, Boston, Toronto and Montreal in exchange for Columbus, Phoenix and Colorado.

To be honest, I'm a STH because I like getting the premium games for a good price. There is no value in me paying the STH price for the last half of the year.

I guess it all comes down to when/if the lockout ends if I remain on. I'm not paying for a bunch of crappy second half games though.

If any substantial amount of games are canceled then teh schedule would be redone completely so your scenario will not happen.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Meh, the Flames owners are looking for an extra 11 dollars per game per fan by reducing the players share to 48%. Too bad they could not just stop being whiny babies and settle for a 6 dollar per game per fan reduction in the players share and settle at 52% share for the players and start the season already. Not sure why a STH's money is less valuable than the owners money. If a season ticket holder does not miss the 5 bucks per game, surely the owners wouldn't either.

Or the players.

See, I can do it too.

(by the way, the interest is per month, not per game, but whatever)

[geos]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Meh, the Flames owners are looking for an extra 11 dollars per game per fan by reducing the players share to 48%. Too bad they could not just stop being whiny babies and settle for a 6 dollar per game per fan reduction in the players share and settle at 52% share

I'm sure the league would take 52% right now if the players would. But you've heard Fehr, 57% with guarnteed massive increases every year is the only thing the players will accept.

Bettman moved from 43-49%.. what's another 3%. Fehr hasn't moved an inch and has clearly stated he is unwilling to. 52% would probably get the deal done, but Fehr isn't willing to do 52%.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by geos

I'm sure the league would take 52% right now if the players would. But you've heard Fehr, 57% with guarnteed massive increases every year is the only thing the players will accept.

Bettman moved from 43-49%.. what's another 3%. Fehr hasn't moved an inch and has clearly stated he is unwilling to. 52% would probably get the deal done, but Fehr isn't willing to do 52%.

Huh? The owners moved to 47.5%. I have never heard Bettman say he would move to 52%.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Or the players.

See, I can do it too.

(by the way, the interest is per month, not per game, but whatever)

No, the difference between what the Flames are offering and what the Wild are offering is $4.77 per game, based on the average ticket price last year, or almost 5 bucks a game. I am pretty sure by definition if the owners are at 48% and they are willing to give up 5 bucks a game per fan to cut a deal at 52% the players would have to be giving up 6 bucks a game per fan from the current agreement to cut a deal.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Huh? The owners moved to 47.5%. I have never heard Bettman say he would move to 52%.

And we have NEVER heard the players say they would move to 52%. Instead they offer up a convoluted formula based on their own growth projections that IF EVERYTHING WORKED AS THEY SAID would approximate 52%.

Why don't they just propose a straight 52%?