New Edmonton Arena Construction will begin in March 2014

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

Here is a crazy idea, why not scale back the plans by $150m and then get er done........as a taxpayer, I am no longer interested in funding anymore giant sports facilities anywhere in Canada.......

Exactly, I feel like it could be done cheaper, not crazy but just more reasonably. How nice of a new building will this be? Probably pretty state of the art, and while I recognize what they're trying to do, if you're going to demand public funding, shouldn't you be mindful of the costs?

Also, who ends up as ultimate owner of the property, and how much sway does the city / public really have here? These would also be considerations I'd think.

The building Edmonton was going to construct had 2 rinks in it if I recall... why not scale it back to 1? The design was pretty state of the art kinda thing, why not pull that back a bit?

Why does everything in our society have to be so gluttonous?

[Northendzone]

Also, what are the odds that this project will have any cost overruns?

Given what has gone on in Phoenix, I would think the chances of Edmonton moving within the next decade seem low.

I can see the government entertaining providing the Katz group with some low interest financing or possibly some tax breaks, but if this project is such a great idea, then have at it........I have a hard time getting excited about giving a rich guy some money, some can make another 20 guys even richer.

I'd have the same opinion if the flames were asking for money as well.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

Also, what are the odds that this project will have any cost overruns?

Given what has gone on in Phoenix, I would think the chances of Edmonton moving within the next decade seem low.

I can see the government entertaining providing the Katz group with some low interest financing or possibly some tax breaks, but if this project is such a great idea, then have at it........I have a hard time getting excited about giving a rich guy some money, some can make another 20 guys even richer.

I'd have the same opinion if the flames were asking for money as well.

Agree and really the lockout and everything just makes one want to say fata off to the whole group at the end of the day.

[Rutuu]

1. Sports economics are hilarious, if you want to make more money cut your operating costs. If they want a new building they should pay for it themselves and cap their salary spending

2. If the Oilers are worth $150-$250million in Edmonton they're worth double that in Toronto/Markham. Moving the Oilers is a fantastic business move. Paying the relocation fee would be worth it, especially if it's in the $100million range...basically the money he'd put up for the new areana in Edmonton

3. Edmonton without the Oilers would be hilarious

[nfotiu]

I am so against the public even paying a dime for a new arena. Either the amount of revenue increase makes it worth the cost of building a new building or a new building doesn't make sense. Making the public pay so they can suck more money out of us is awful and taxpayers need to start standing up against this bs.

[North East Goon]

Katz also owns the Copps Coliseum in Hamilton, a potential temporary building until Markham completes there new building. If the Oilers move that would really suck and my loyalty to the NHL which is already hanging by a thread would be ripped free.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

1. Sports economics are hilarious, if you want to make more money cut your operating costs. If they want a new building they should pay for it themselves and cap their salary spending

2. If the Oilers are worth $150-$250million in Edmonton they're worth double that in Toronto/Markham. Moving the Oilers is a fantastic business move. Paying the relocation fee would be worth it, especially if it's in the $100million range...basically the money he'd put up for the new areana in Edmonton

3. Edmonton without the Oilers would be hilarious

Access to the Toronto area would likely cost substantially more than that - more like $500M

[EddyBeers]

I am super confused, I thought the owners put up the capital to get the team and pay for the capital improvements to allow the team to operate. Now it turns out that the taxpayer actually is the one who pays for the capital improvements. Katz should pay for the whole building, he is the one who wants it.

[Tinordi]

There is no rational economic reason for the public to pay for a pro sports arena. And this is what happens when you get into negotiations along those lines. The taxpayer gets strung along.

Good for the city to call Katz's bluff.

[automaton 3]

Surely a nice new rink seating ~18,000 can be built for $450M.

There appears to be a bunch of "would be nice to have" elements here that should hit the chopping block.

[Flash Walken]

Horrible timing to propose a new arena.

"So, you want the city to shell out $200m so that the building can stay empty for a year while you power struggle with your millionaire contracted employees?

And we can look forward to this once every 5 years?"

Sound investment of public money, to be sure (GREEN).

I hope the flames are taking note.

[seattleflamer]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

Here is a crazy idea, why not scale back the plans by $150m and then get er done........as a taxpayer, I am no longer interested in funding anymore giant sports facilities anywhere in Canada.......

So essentially you'd be getting an MTS Centre like facility.

[-TC-]

the whole thing has turned into a gong show. I've lived in Edmonton for 13 years and I'm still amazed by how small minded the general pop is in terms of what it takes to be considered a tier one city...most are completely clueless and are more worried about a miniscule tax bump than doing something that redifines downtown and drives big money into the core

[dash_pinched]

David Staples ‏@dstaples
Some at city hall worried Katz is trying to scuttle deal so he can take better offer in Seattle. Suspicion/paranoia abounds!

[oilyfan]

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...396/story.html

Mayor Stephen Mandel says the cost of the proposed downtown arena has increased from $450 million to $470 million, and while the Katz Group would pay half, he doesn’t believe the other $10 million in public dollars constitutes a deal-breaker.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by -TC-

the whole thing has turned into a gong show. I've lived in Edmonton for 13 years and I'm still amazed by how small minded the general pop is in terms of what it takes to be considered a tier one city...most are completely clueless and are more worried about a miniscule tax bump than doing something that redifines downtown and drives big money into the core

Ya and in those 13 years the minimum price of an Oiler ticket has gone from $20 to $50, the games have gone from having huge empty holes to packed every night, and now the owner, who spends maybe 2 months a year actually in Edmonton wants the taxpayer to shell out for a building to make him even richer?

This isn't about not wanting to be a top tier city, if the city put up half the costs and got half of the revenues then I'm cool with it. I am not cool with lining the pockets of a billionaire who is too busy flying around to other cities on his private jets then actually fronting the money for a venture that will undoubtly pay off in the long run.

The government is not supposed to be in the business of subsidizing private industry, so until Katz is willing share the profits I'm not willing to share my income to make him richer.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by seattleflamer

So essentially you'd be getting an MTS Centre like facility.

and what would be wrong with that? does every project need to be a cadillac?

from the article the funding is outlined as: $100m from Katz, $125m from a ticket tax, $125m from the city and the shortfall ($100m) from the province. so to summarize - Katz is kicking in 22% of the cost and the remaining 78% is coming from the taxpayer - directly and indirectly (via the ticket tax) - nice deal. PErhaps the next time a major oil company builds a hed office, the government should provide similar funding. Maybe the government can provide me with a tax break and help me out with my monthly expenses instead of just dreaming of new ways to tax me.

Last I checked every level of government is in debt, a debt that will likely never ever be paid off....I continue to ask, if this is such a good idea, why does Katz need so much help to fund this.

You just know if Edmonton goes ahead with this, then the Falmes are going to look for similar funds from the city and province. given the recent mess that is the Ctrain line and south Hospital I have little faith in the government investment not having to increase by a lot.

as a taxpayer, i say no thanks. if you need to move a team, then my life will go on - you provide your product to me for "free" on TV (I realize that I pay a monthly fee to Shaw to get hockey in my basement)

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

and what would be wrong with that? does every project need to be a cadillac?

from the article the funding is outlined as: $100m from Katz, $125m from a ticket tax, $125m from the city and the shortfall ($100m) from the province. so to summarize - Katz is kicking in 22% of the cost and the remaining 78% is coming from the taxpayer - directly and indirectly (via the ticket tax) - nice deal. PErhaps the next time a major oil company builds a hed office, the government should provide similar funding. Maybe the government can provide me with a tax break and help me out with my monthly expenses instead of just dreaming of new ways to tax me.

Although right now the ticket tax money goes straight to the Katz Group. In this new plan, the ticket tax money goes to the city so in essence, Katz is paying $225 million or exactly half.

This is a really good (but long) read on the issue and what the hang-ups are right now:

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...arena-project/

[nik-]

Originally Posted by dash_pinched

David Staples ‏@dstaples
Some at city hall worried Katz is trying to scuttle deal so he can take better offer in Seattle. Suspicion/paranoia abounds!

Well I don't doubt he wants to use it as leverage, but I think it's a leap at this point to think he'd actually go through with that.

No?

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

I think the arena's ability to generate revenue is completely maxed out. Capacity is low, they've put suites pretty much everywhere they can, no loge seating, limited areas for digital signage, etc.

Over time, staying there will hurt the franchise because it can be generating so much more revenue elsewhere.

An NHL team could potentially generate so much more money elsewhere.

There's no shortage of potential gold mines that have dried up when the team actually set up shop, and there's no guarantee that a team going into Seattle would be a financial success if it struggled on the ice.

Fan support in Edmonton is essentially guaranteed.