MY thoughts are simple - anything is better than the route mankind is currently taking....I watched this (below) recently - what if this is even half right?
I absolutely detest the attitude in bold. It's almost as if people completely forget human sucesses of the past two centuries when it comes to health care. No, not 'anything' is better than the route mankind is currently taking, only scientific method tested improvements are better than the status quo. I'm very pleased that you have been healthy for the past 10 years while you have been seeing a snake oil salesman. That's cool and if you want to spend your money on that and feel good doing it, the more power to you.
The part where I'm annoyed is that jurisdictions like Alberta are legitimizing treatments like this. To the public, when they see that government's are essentially endorsing Chiros and naturopaths, it might lead them to come into their offices when faced with serious medical problems as opposed to seeing an actual doctor. That's the grand shame of this all, not otherwise healthy people walking into naturopath's offices and paying up for sugar pills, water, and the like.
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You know what I hate about the internet? It leads people to believe that all information about everything is available.
Why would drug companies be freely publishing their research for all to peruse? You ask for a ridiculous proof.
Surely there must be one example that has been published freely on the Internet though if they are actually doing double blind tests early on. Truth is, there is no reason for them to test in this way, as rats give them a lot more latitude in both dosing and understanding how the substances do or do not work. The results of studies on rats by drug companies go public occasionally, though usually only after they are able to find a effective way of synthesizing the substance they are interested in.
I see your point Cowboy - and I will never underestimate the progress mankind has made in several different areas including medicine. That being said, it is my opinion the the pharmacutical industry (like many others) are focused not so much on mankind, rather than the billions they are making on getting some of these wonder drugs to the market.
And you think natural remedies like companies selling homeopath treatments are not looking to make money?? you realize the big placebo industry is HUGE, not big pharma huge but still massive.
There is also nothing unnatural or nasty about lab made drugs, take aspirin for example it was discovered from a plant, now you could go the natural route and eat this nasty plant, something like half a pound of leaves or take 1 pill that has it in handy small easily digestible form.
Pills are just concentrated or formulated ways to get the stuff nature gave us so why fear that, or why even look down upon it.
Yes there is too much profit and of course these companies have areas which I worry deeply about like psych drugs which are something we should be weary of. But thats their job, make drugs to help with human illness, their research isn't cures, its the band aids.
Thats why we don't rely on big pharma for all our research
Modern medicine is the greatest thing in human history, we have gone from living 30-40 years to 80-100 years in short time. We have not only extended our life times, but the quality of life for those afflicted with all kinds of illnesses.
Now that we are at this great point in our history people are starting to attack the very thing that gives us such a great quality of life. Mind you there are certainly drugs we can argue are no good and deserve tougher scrutiny.. But as a whole the amount of negativity towards pharmaceuticals is utterly nonsense.
__________________ Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
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Also I'd like to add that a lot of this anger towards pharma should be directed at our food supply, the stuff we are putting in our bodies is making us sick, less anger at those who treat that and more to those who create the problem in the first place.
Chiropractors are probably the most common naturopaths around. Some of them are even crazy enough to suggest that if you get regular alignments, you can't get sick. Others prescribe natural remedies on the side. If you using a chiro for more than just loosening the odd muscle, then your much better off finding a physiotherapist that will take a much more holistic approach to actually fixing the problem. Of course, there are some good chiropractors that essentially work as physiotherapists, but they are quite uncommon.
I have a compressed vertebrae in my neck. When it goes out, it dramaticlly affects my neck mobility. It will ease after a couple of days but without treatment the problem has not gone away and recurs worse than before. My chiropractors have been a god-send for me.
From 1996 - 2002 I had gout on a regular basis and I was always prescibed the usual medication from the doctors (Celebrex and a couple of others). One day I read an article by a naturalpath and it simply talked about the acid build up and that most people that get chronic gout have an inbalance in their system - usually can be "cured" from change of diet and some other basic items. I made the changes and have not had gout since 2003. And I have not put those terrible drugs in my system that have been proven to harm liver and kidney function in many that take them. I found the medication I was taking was just masking the problem (a bandaid) when curing the gout was what I was really looking to do.
Be honest, were you eating poorly and not exercising prior to this amazing naturopath revalation? Because if realizing that changing diet and lifestyle is an amazing cure and is proof to you that big pharma is out to get you, I'm sorry but you need to serious adjust your perspective. Diet and lifestyle are pretty much the biggest factors in dealing with gout. Any doctor will tell you that you need to decrease uric acid levels and diet and reducing obesity are the easiest ways to do that. Drugs help to deal with acute attacks and further reduce the amount of serum uric acid levels, but they aren't going to be some magical pill that means you don't have to treat your body well.
This is like saying "I was in pain all the time from smashing my head against the wall and taking so much codiene and ibuprofen and the side effects were terrible and then I read an article that said 'stop smashing your head against the wall' and I discovered I was cured from this small lifestyle change!"
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I go to a naturopath for natural remedies for things like anxiety, weight management, sleep problems & stress management. She recommends vitamins & supplements, things to eat & drink, how to successfully meditate...all of which I've had success with.
I went to my family doctor 6 years ago when my nerves were fried after my brother almost died in an accident. I was having full blown panic attacks & I was so nervous all the time I couldn't eat anything because I couldn't keep it down. After speaking with my doctor about it for less than 3 minutes, I walked out with prescriptions for Fluoxetine (Prozac), Ativan and PrevAcid (for a stomach issue). After a while I realized that it wasn't helping (I gave it a few months), I decided to go to a naturopath upon a friends suggestion. She told me to take supplements with passionflower and valerian, eat certain foods (I had a great diet already), exercise (which I did not as often as I should have been doing) and most importantly - meditation. I'd never meditated before and quite frankly thought it was going to be a massive waste of time, but gave it my all anyways. It worked, and with her coaching I managed to be rid of my anxiety within weeks.
I'm not saying that this would work for everyone, or that a naturopath has the solution for everything. If I came down with an infection I'd promptly be in my doctors office waiting for some medicine. I'm just saying that for some problems & some people, they work. Yes, I admit that my success might be a placebo-effect, but I got rid of my anxiety naturally after having taken all kinds of drugs. I understand that others need medications like the ones I was taking, but for some people, pills may not work or may not be necessary. I still meditate on a regular basis and I find I'm a much happier person.
I think modern medicine is wonderful with how far it’s come; it’s helped out countless people and will continue to do so. On the other hand, I don’t think there’s any problem with seeking out natural advise for things that the INDIVIDUAL deems less serious. For some people it works, for others it doesn’t.
Last edited by Nyah; 07-26-2012 at 12:18 PM.
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Be honest, were you eating poorly and not exercising prior to this amazing naturopath revalation? Because if realizing that changing diet and lifestyle is an amazing cure and is proof to you that big pharma is out to get you, I'm sorry but you need to serious adjust your perspective. Diet and lifestyle are pretty much the biggest factors in dealing with gout. Any doctor will tell you that you need to decrease uric acid levels and diet and reducing obesity are the easiest ways to do that. Drugs help to deal with acute attacks and further reduce the amount of serum uric acid levels, but they aren't going to be some magical pill that means you don't have to treat your body well.
This is like saying "I was in pain all the time from smashing my head against the wall and taking so much codiene and ibuprofen and the side effects were terrible and then I read an article that said 'stop smashing your head against the wall' and I discovered I was cured from this small lifestyle change!"
It's like you did not read a single word he wrote. And no the Doctor will not automatically tell you all about changing your diet, 9 times out of 10 they will write up a script and send you on your way. And when you don't get better, you will get another prescription.
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Most doctors at walk-in clinics and some family doctors are utter garbage.
They don't listen, and just want to get you out of their office asap so they can see the next patient.
There are a few solutions to all your problems: painkillers, antibiotics, ice...etc.
Thanks, I could've figured this out myself!!
Bottom line is, if a traditional doctor can't help me with whatever problem I'm having, I will go see a naturopath.
It has worked for a ton of people, so why poo-poo on them if they prevailed where traditional medicine failed?
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Originally Posted by Champion
The Oilers don't need a Giordano. They have a glut of him.
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It has worked for a ton of people, so why poo-poo on them if they prevailed where traditional medicine failed?
Why is it that it only seems to work when nobody is watching? As soon as anyone tries to quantify those results in a proper study, the effectiveness 'magically' disappears.
__________________
"Teach a man to reason, and he'll think for a lifetime"
Why is it that it only seems to work when nobody is watching? As soon as anyone tries to quantify those results in a proper study, the effectiveness 'magically' disappears.
Observing it collapses the quantum wavefunction, obviously.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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It's like you did not read a single word he wrote. And no the Doctor will not automatically tell you all about changing your diet, 9 times out of 10 they will write up a script and send you on your way. And when you don't get better, you will get another prescription.
No I assure you I read it. It's the same silly arguments most people make for naturopathy. Tinfoil hat conspiracy about "big pharma" mixed with an extremely misguided belief in what the role of drugs are in health care and attributing common sense regarding diet and exercise to some naturopathic "lifestyle".
The most important message from a naturopath is the following: "drugs are not the be all end all solution. You need to take care of your body too". Now, when they go beyond that to start suggesting herbs and vitamins and other snake oil as the way to get that healthy lifestyle, and make claims about the medical effectiveness of same, I have an issue.
Newsflash: Not every doctor graduated first in their class. Some aren't that good. If you doctor just writes you prescriptions and sends you on your way, get a new doctor. Medicine (not alternative medicine, not natuopathic medicine, but scientifically sound western health care) is quite aware of the positive effects a healthy diet and regular exercise have on your body. Drugs are a tool to assist with things outside our control, and to deal with symptoms of things we may have brought on ourselves. Drugs have been subjected to rigourous testing to ensure that the benefits they claim to have can be reproduced in testing on a aggregate basis. This isn't to say all drugs work on all people, but that they have been scientifically proven to produce certain results in a specific percentage of individuals with those medical issues.
I have no issue if people want to suggest talking to a naturopath if thats the only way to get someone on board with the idea that you have to take care of your body. When these people start making claims about overdrugging and big pharma and how nature provides us with alternatives that are better for us and do the same thing, that's where I get my rageguy face.
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Why is it that it only seems to work when nobody is watching? As soon as anyone tries to quantify those results in a proper study, the effectiveness 'magically' disappears.
I know someone with macular degeneration. They have been seeing a specialist for years, their vision continued to degrade. They stopped taking the drug treatments and went natural, since then they have managed to keep their vision from deteriorating. They still see the specialist for the vision tests etc. and they continue to get laser treatments if the pressure goes too high, although that has not happened in the last 2 years or so.
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"We have done this because we want Albertans to feel as secure in the education, competency and skills of practitioners to perform naturopathic services as they feel when they visit a medical doctor or medical service, a dentist or dental service, or any other regulated profession."
If you read this properly, what he is saying is that if people inform themselves about what each of these groups are legally able to do and the training they should have received, the regulated profession means that each person advertising themself as a naturopath will have to meet certain professional standards. This is a public protection mechanism, and is good.
The bad is when you have people like this lady saying the following:
"It’s recognition that it’s a legitimate field, a legitimate practice and it should be recognized just as much as a medical doctor,” she said, adding she hopes it will one day be funded. Her visits cost about $170, one-third of which is covered by her employer’s health plan. “It’s a commitment” to visit a naturopath without coverage, she said."
No, that isn't it at all. Approval of a self regulating professional membership should not be viewed as legitimizing the pseudoscientific claims made by those practicing this stuff, which at best is healthly living counselling, and at worst outright quackery.
Unfortunately, doing this does legitimize these people in the minds of certain members of the public.
I guess I'm ok as long as it never receives any sort of funding from the province. People can do what they want and believe what they want as long as they pay for it themselves. It's basically medical religion though.
Newsflash: Not every doctor graduated first in their class. Some aren't that good. If you doctor just writes you prescriptions and sends you on your way, get a new doctor.
Yea it's that easy, just get a new Doctor. When I came back to Canada it took me over 2 years on a waiting list before I got a family doctor.
Observing it collapses the quantum wavefunction, obviously.
Schrodinger's Cure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamler
I know someone with macular degeneration. They have been seeing a specialist for years, their vision continued to degrade. They stopped taking the drug treatments and went natural, since then they have managed to keep their vision from deteriorating. They still see the specialist for the vision tests etc. and they continue to get laser treatments if the pressure goes too high, although that has not happened in the last 2 years or so.
Judging by anecdotal evidence reports such as this, it would appear that 'natural' remedies have success factors significantly higher than that which be considered phenomenal in the evidence based stream. Yet, when these remedies are appropriately tested, results are indistinguishable from placebo treatment (ie no treatment whatsoever). Again, why do these miracles fail when they are examined?
__________________
"Teach a man to reason, and he'll think for a lifetime"
And no the Doctor will not automatically tell you all about changing your diet, 9 times out of 10 they will write up a script and send you on your way. And when you don't get better, you will get another prescription.
When I came back to Canada it took me over 2 years on a waiting list before I got a family doctor.
