[GDT] Jays Series Thread - at White Sox June 5-7

[howard_the_duck]

FYI I agree about JP - that loss was as much on him as it was Cordero.

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Cordero is not a good reliever anymore. He's managed to bring his season back to respectability but having to rely on him in late game situations is terrifying.

Are there some good pieces? Yes. Janssen, Perez, and Oliver have all pitched very well. Frasor, while I can't stand the guy, is pretty reliable although I would prefer him in lower pressure situations. A healthy Santos should be a big boost as well.

However, in late game situations when it's tied/within a run and is the Jays bullpen vs. the opposition, do you really feel that comfortable right now? I sure don't.

The calibre of arms in the Jays pen this year pales in comparison to several other AL clubs. Even in the East, whose pen do you have the Jays' being better than? Boston?

You're quote was that your never comfortable watching any of these relievers. That is an opinion your welcome to have, I do feel confident with a lot of them.


So you're agreeing the Jays have 4 strong options out of the pen and then 5 when Santos comes back. I don't mind this bullpen at all, especially if Cordero can continue the pace he was on.

Cordero's season has been split into two. First half was awful, second half was great. I don't think it's fair to choose one sample over the other, and label him an awful relief pitcher.

I think with Santos back, I really like this bullpen, just with how much it will help with being able to use Jannsen in different situations. Bullpens are such wildcards, and it's why I don't put any stock into signing them for more then 1 year deals or trading much value for them.

[howard_the_duck]

I like Perez and Janssen a lot. Beyond that it's hit or miss. With Santos back and performing as he's supposed to, I still think they are at least 1 arm short of being a very good bullpen. A big problem I have with the bullpen is that they give up too many base on balls and don't miss enough bats.

It's hard to argue the pen hasn't been a pretty big problem to this point. If they aren't getting a solid 7 innings out of their starters they have been in real trouble.

All things being equal, the Jays pen doesn't stack up very well against the teams they're competing with for the Wild Card.

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

I will never understand the blind hate for our bullpen or how people can jump on Cordero after he goes on a tear like he did and then has one bad outing, that was avoidable if JPA could block a ball.

Frasor, Perez, Oliver, Janssen and Santos when he gets back, make up a heck of a bullpen. Cordero had gone 12.1 innings pitched with a 1.59 ERA.

I agree that the pen has been an improvment over years past - just was mentioning that I don't feel comfortable at all when the game gets turned over is all. Just a feeling, no stats to back it up. Maybe I'm just gun shy from the days of Gregg, Francisco, Koch, Sturtze, Rzepchinski, etc.

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

I agree that the pen has been an improvment over years past - just was mentioning that I don't feel comfortable at all when the game gets turned over is all. Just a feeling, no stats to back it up. Maybe I'm just gun shy from the days of Gregg, Francisco, Koch, Sturtze, Rzepchinski, etc.

Fransisco and Rzepczynski both were great arms for the Jays.

I agree Howard that the base on balls are concerning, but I also believe that the Red Sox Bullpen imploded for a good chunk of the start of the season and now is looking great. I'm not sold on Fernando Rodney as a Rays closer and the Yankees are not a lights out bullpen. I'm not playing the homer card, I don't think the Jays have anything close to the best bullpen in the AL East, but I don't think the gap between them and the other teams is that big.

I think we can all agree, that Santos coming back will be a big help.