Harper Government tells Canada's three oceans to go eff themselves.

[Ashartus]

Next it's the air: http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...423/story.html

[Notorious Honey Badger]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

Next it's the air: http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...423/story.html

unreal. george w. bush north.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I'm not sure that I would entirely agree.

When I lived in Kenora ON (pop. 10,000), we had curbside recycling as far back 1991.

When I lived in Lethbridge AB (pop. 80,000) as recently as 2005, we'd have to pack our backpacks full of recycling trash every weekend and catch the bus to one of a few recycling depots (I only knew of 2).

I also don't think having to return empties to the Beer Store is a big deal. There are Beer Stores everywhere and it cuts out the middle man and saves energy that way.

Are you really comparing a small city in Ontario against a mid-sized city in Alberta as if either is representative of their respective provinces as a whole?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

unreal. george w. bush north.

The thing about hyperbole is that it is rarely an effective means of making a point. It usually only makes the person using it look like an idiot.

[rubecube]

I really don't know why the Conservatives keep pushing this carefree environmental platform. Not only is it bad policy but bad political strategy.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

My issue was they only accepted beer bottles, and sometimes alcohol bottles, but only those that were sold in Canada. They refused to accept American bottles and cans. Living in Windsor that was a pretty big deal.

Well in all fairness the US would have collected the deposit. I suppose they could accept the empties and not give a refund but then people probably wouldn't return them anyway.

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I know the bottle depots in Calgary have no care whatsoever where the cans and bottles come from, as I've returned many bottles and cans from the United States here without question.

I was talking to someone about this last time I went to the depot, there was a sign right out front that said there was a $50,000.00 fine for redeeming containers purchased outside Alberta. I doubt they have ever enforced that though.

[Notorious Honey Badger]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The thing about hyperbole is that it is rarely an effective means of making a point. It usually only makes the person using it look like an idiot.

Uh huh. Do you feel better now that you called the big bad liberal an idiot? Do you need a hug maybe?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Are you really comparing a small city in Ontario against a mid-sized city in Alberta as if either is representative of their respective provinces as a whole?

It's no different than picking Windsor as an example to be representative of Ontario as a whole.

The fact is that most of Ontario (even small towns) has had curbside recycling services for over 20 years and Alberta's 3rd largest city didn't have it recently (and maybe still doesn't). Bigger cities should be expected to have more advanced services. I'm not saying that Ontario is a great example of environmentalism, I just don''t agree that they are far behind Alberta. Alberta has a lot of advantages. Newer cities with modern infrastructure and modern urban planning. I really do think Ontario puts forward a lot of effort to be green, but they can't just tear it all down and replace everything.

http://www.stewardshipontario.ca/cor.../bbontario.htm

Mid-80s to Early 90s
Industry helped launch “blue box” recycling programs throughout Ontario in an industry-municipal-provincial government partnership arrangement. Each partner contributed one-third the capital costs of starting the programs. Industry also paid the promotional and educational costs and provided technical and communications assistance. By the early 90s, 80% of Ontario’s households had access to recycling services.

When did 80% of households get recycling services in Alberta?

[4X4]

Your quote says that 80% of Ontario households had access to recycling by the early 90s. Does that mean curbside recycling? Because I recall the big green community bins being all over Calgary for at least 15 years.

[OffsideSpecialist]

I think that means curbside recycling. There's been curbside recycling all over Ontario for as long as I can remember. In fact, I thought everyone in this country has curbside recycling until I visited Alberta as an 8 year old

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Your quote says that 80% of Ontario households had access to recycling by the early 90s. Does that mean curbside recycling? Because I recall the big green community bins being all over Calgary for at least 15 years.

The blue bin program is specifically curbside recycling.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

Uh huh. Do you feel better now that you called the big bad liberal an idiot? Do you need a hug maybe?

The irony of your comment is that everyone hates government duplication and waste... except when it suits their personal politics to attack the government for cutting duplication, and therefore waste.

[Notorious Honey Badger]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The irony of your comment is that everyone hates government duplication and waste... except when it suits their personal politics to attack the government for cutting duplication, and therefore waste.

I find it preposterous to refer to clean air and clean water as "personal politics."

[Jake]

I have worked with Fisheries and Oceans Canada in BC closely for the last two years on a fishery assessment. Right now, there are entire fisheries in BC that literally have only 1 or 2 people working on them, which is ridiculous. I completely support a shift in focus to our fisheries, as they have practical and immediate benefits to Canada.

The government should not, however, rely on academia to produce research. The section I have worked with has relied on UBC (me) for important research in fisheries assessment. Employees of that section have already expressed concern with what will happen when I graduate, since there is no one to pick up the research to continue to modernize the fisheries assessment methods. I can only imagine a similar pattern will emerge if we rely on universities to do the governments research.

Another huge problem is that the grant money the government is giving out comes with ridiculous restrictions. For example, want to buy a $20,000 weigh scale? No problem! Want to pay a Ph.D. student more than 22K/year? Not allowed (by NSERC). It is pretty tough to attract Ph.D. level graduate students, who are almost always over 25, with that kind of terrible salary. Ph.D. students funded by industry make 2-3x that.

Anyways, the money to fund more fisheries research needs to come from somewhere. Not sure if it should come from ocean pollution research though.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by driveway

My biggest concern is the implication that industry can be trusted to provide accurate and responsible data to the public.

This is essentially the same thing as trusting a drug addict with your wallet.

It really isn't at all similar. Scientists have a higher moral standard than drug addicts. For every scientist funded by industry that fakes or intentionally mis-interprets data, there are 100 others that were completely honest.

Good luck funding much research without industry. Industry funding has been a driving force in scientific progress for a long time, not government funding.