CA versus Law

[Ducay]

Accounting public practice (Big4) in Vancouver makes ~80-85% what we do here in Calgary, and considering the high cost of living, you're ######ed to go out of your way to work there. We've got plenty of mining and diverse industries here in town if you really want the exposure.....plus all the money.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Just a question, but these surveys are voluntary right? So basically it's as flawed as the CP "how much do you make" poll in that generally, people who make lots and want to brag about it will fill it out, but people who think they make less than the standard average will not fill it out. So it skews the results. It's the same with any professional survey IMO, so you have to take that number with a grain of salt.

You are correct that the surveys are voluntary. I'm going to guess the survey is more reliable than the one done here, but with any survey, there are always ways it could be flawed. With respondents as large as these, one number would not be as significant and outliers wouldn't skew the results as much as they could here. There isn't much (there is some) to gain from filling out the survey incorrectly.

Especially in public audits, CAs are selling their word more than anything. There are checks, controls and standards that are all followed, but in the end you are signing off on working papers and financial statements, which states you did all the work. You are giving your word you did everything correctly and nothing came up that is materially incorrect. I see the survey as an extension of this, where the CAs are giving their word that this is how they are compensated.

From the people I know, (friends, co-workers, colleagues), the figures appear reasonable. My number is fairly close to the average based on the year I passed the UFE. The people I did MPAcc with make similar numbers to me. Most make a little more, but work in public, oil and gas companies. The numbers could be skewed, but I bet they aren't far off. The methodology on getting them is well done.

Here is a link to the survey results. http://www.icao.on.ca/CA/Compensatio...7page4862.aspx

There are provincial/territorial specific reports and a Canada wide one. The methodology is explained and there are numerous charts and stats about who responded, areas of work, etc.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Accounting public practice (Big4) in Vancouver makes ~80-85% what we do here in Calgary, and considering the high cost of living, you're ######ed to go out of your way to work there. We've got plenty of mining and diverse industries here in town if you really want the exposure.....plus all the money.

As a CA who works in both Vancouver and Calgary, the money, cost of living and diverse industries comments are 100% correct. There is no chance I'd ever move to Vancouver just to article. In my opinion there isn't a better city to article in than Calgary. You make more than any other city. There are tonnes of connections to be made. You are worked less than Toronto. The Flames are here.

[Manhattanboy]

I did law at UBC and work for a large firm here in Calgary.

We hire from all over the country.

I do corporate and very much enjoy the practice, but if I had to do it again would marry the two and specialize in tax. Tax lawyers are very well paid and their practices are totally portable at all levels - meaning if you switch firms as a lateral at the partner level you don't need to bring a book of business with you, as you are there largely to serve firm clients.

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

if I had to do it again would marry the two and specialize in tax. Tax lawyers are very well paid and their practices are totally portable at all levels - meaning if you switch firms as a lateral at the partner level you don't need to bring a book of business with you, as you are there largely to serve firm clients.

Damn, everyone here went to UBC Law eh?

[Titan]

Nope. Queens and UofC.

[fredr123]

I did my undergraduate degree and law school degree at U of C.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

From the people I know, (friends, co-workers, colleagues), the figures appear reasonable. My number is fairly close to the average based on the year I passed the UFE. The people I did MPAcc with make similar numbers to me. Most make a little more, but work in public, oil and gas companies. The numbers could be skewed, but I bet they aren't far off. The methodology on getting them is well done.

I start MPAcc in May this year.

I also struggle with the CA vs. law question. Great advice/insights in this thread. Part of me wants to go through and get my Law degree as well and "marry the two" like Manhattanboy said.. I don't think I want it bad enough, though, as I do not want to write the LSAT (yet 24 more months of articling doesn't sound so bad ha!).. Maybe I'll write it in my 8 months between MPAcc terms!?

[eddly]

CA is a tough road, even harder if you are forcing yourself to do it because you think you'll make 6 figures one day.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

I start MPAcc in May this year.

I also struggle with the CA vs. law question. Great advice/insights in this thread. Part of me wants to go through and get my Law degree as well and "marry the two" like Manhattanboy said.. I don't think I want it bad enough, though, as I do not want to write the LSAT (yet 24 more months of articling doesn't sound so bad ha!).. Maybe I'll write it in my 8 months between MPAcc terms!?

The LSAT is not difficult, I honestly found studying for it to be pretty fun. It's basically a series of games. I wouldn't recommend doing it on a whim, but you don't need to spend months slaving over practice tests to do well. Do a few practice questions, see how it feels and if it isn't too painful keep working at it.

[CISSP]

Originally Posted by valo403

The LSAT is not difficult, I honestly found studying for it to be pretty fun. It's basically a series of games. I wouldn't recommend doing it on a whim, but you don't need to spend months slaving over practice tests to do well. Do a few practice questions, see how it feels and if it isn't too painful keep working at it.

LSAT is not difficult. What is difficult is maintaining enough focus to make less than 10 Mistakes (164ish or 90th percentile scores). The LSAT is, Logic games withstanding, is not a series of games. It is more a test of reading comprehension.

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

I start MPAcc in May this year.

I also struggle with the CA vs. law question. Great advice/insights in this thread. Part of me wants to go through and get my Law degree as well and "marry the two" like Manhattanboy said.. I don't think I want it bad enough, though, as I do not want to write the LSAT (yet 24 more months of articling doesn't sound so bad ha!).. Maybe I'll write it in my 8 months between MPAcc terms!?

Logical Reason, Reading Comprehension and Logic Games comprise the test, but for the most part, your ability to read carefully is tested. No prior knowledge is required, but having an ability to visualize the logic of each section is important.

I took the LSAT and on my first try I scored a 170. I wrote a single practise test about 2 weeks before the exam. I am well aware that this is an anomaly and for most people. The standard approach is to write a pracitce test somewhere around a few months before the test. If you need copies of the LSAT, I have a large archive of tests that I can batch and send to your email address. If you can score a 164 consistently on your tests, your pretty much set for any Canadian Uni. The LSAT is not a difficult test, but it is difficult to hit the high percentiles.

Essentially, If you cannot score above 156 on the test, I would recommend buckling down and practicing, or (if you have the money), taking one of those preperation courses (Essentially the same as buckling down, except they force you to). For Canada, 164 is pretty much your money score if you have 3.7 GPA. There are different acceptance standards for each school, but if you carry those kind of marks you are pretty much good for all schools but UT.

[SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by eddly

CA is a tough road, even harder if you are forcing yourself to do it because you think you'll make 6 figures one day.

Yeah I have a lot of friends trying to pursue CA designation that think it will be a walk in the park because it's under the "Accounting" umbrella... my cousin is a CA and had said the designation exam was to weed people out who are just it in for the 'money'.

[CISSP]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Yeah I have a lot of friends trying to pursue CA designation that think it will be a walk in the park because it's under the "Accounting" umbrella... my cousin is a CA and had said the designation exam was to weed people out who are just it in for the 'money'.

I will add my two cents on this. As it was almost half a decade ago I took my final examination for CA designation. Echoing what has been already said, by the time you're done with the various modules, the training, and the exam you will know you want to be an accountant. No normal person would subject themselves to such a stressful process "just for the money".

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by CISSP

I will add my two cents on this. As it was almost half a decade ago I took my final examination for CA designation. Echoing what has been already said, by the time you're done with the various modules, the training, and the exam you will know you want to be an accountant. No normal person would subject themselves to such a stressful process "just for the money".

Almost half a decade? So 4 years ago? Tell me about the good old days Grandpa.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by CISSP

I will add my two cents on this. As it was almost half a decade ago I took my final examination for CA designation. Echoing what has been already said, by the time you're done with the various modules, the training, and the exam you will know you want to be an accountant. No normal person would subject themselves to such a stressful process "just for the money".

Totally disagree; myself and a huge percentage of people I articled with chose this path for the opportunities if opens up (aka money). Getting through CASB and the UFE takes dedication, but does not require you to want to be an accountant. You've just got to have the underlying smarts and then a strong will to force you to survive the 3 years of sadness.

[CISSP]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Almost half a decade? So 4 years ago? Tell me about the good old days Grandpa.

Hey, I'm 28, that's pretty old.

[VO #23]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

Damn, everyone here went to UBC Law eh?

+1 (I'm graduating from UBC Law in May).

In terms of the quality of clinical programs and course selection offered, physical facilities, and caliber of students entering each year, UBC is the top law school in western Canada. And it's not even really that close.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by VO #23

+1 (I'm graduating from UBC Law in May).

In terms of the quality of clinical programs and course selection offered, physical facilities, and caliber of students entering each year, UBC is the top law school in western Canada. And it's not even really that close.

I've got to go check out the new building.

I'd have to say I wasn't impressed with UBC particularly, from an educational quality standpoint or (certainly) a student experience standpoint. Hopefully it's undergone a bit of a culture shift with the new facilities.

If I could do it again, I'd go to Dal.

[Mr.Coffee]

I feel like most young people aren't diligent enough in discovering a career that will suit their financial goals.

People look at jobs out there and say I should either do finance, accounting, doctor or law. Problem is a lot of these careers have hours that are insanely demanding / not as conducive to having a "life" outside of work.

There are a lot of other careers out there that pay well though, really well. Any of your technical staff at oil and gas shops pay well and probably have better hrs / lifestyles.

Geologists, engineers, etc...

Is your goal to have a bunch of money or enjoy what you're doing? You can do both, and admittedly many of these law / acct / finance people might like what they're doing but there's no way I would be caught dead in any of these careers. Most likely because I am lazy I guess.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I feel like most young people aren't diligent enough in discovering a career that will suit their financial goals.

People look at jobs out there and say I should either do finance, accounting, doctor or law. Problem is a lot of these careers have hours that are insanely demanding / not as conducive to having a "life" outside of work.

There are a lot of other careers out there that pay well though, really well. Any of your technical staff at oil and gas shops pay well and probably have better hrs / lifestyles.

Geologists, engineers, etc...

Is your goal to have a bunch of money or enjoy what you're doing? You can do both, and admittedly many of these law / acct / finance people might like what they're doing but there's no way I would be caught dead in any of these careers. Most likely because I am lazy I guess.

I thought about going back to get an engineering undergrad to be honest, but I have a hard time getting over the fact of another 4 years of undergrad.