"Illegal" to be fat - get fined or face higher premiums!

[valo403]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Still one sentence. Waiting for others again? Wonder if the Moderators pick up on your style.

nm

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

You guys do know that you don't need the healthiest of foods to not become obese right? It is all about calorie intake. Doesn't matter what food you are buying at the store. Eat less calories then you exert and you will live never get obese. You want to eat a whole panormous pizza? Go ahead just go do something to burn off those calories afterwords.

This is so utterly incorrect, overly simplistic and incomplete. I agree, this was the prevailing thought for decades and will take years to change due to 'bro science', but the complexities of the hormonal and neurological effects of different foods is just recently coming to light and painting a much different picture.

The laws of thermodynamics only apply to closed systems. I have stayed the same weight for about 12 years now without ever counting calories. Have I just miraculously consumed the exact same number of calories per day in that span? Have I exercised just the perfect amount every week? Silly when you look at it that way.

How can some people eat 3-4 thousand calories a day, rarely exercise and remain thin? Why do some people glance at a chocolate chip cookie, run 5 km, then gain 2 pounds?

Hormones are everything ...and make no mistake, different foods have much different hormonal effects and result in much different metabolic reactions. In fact, HFCS and refined carbohydrates have been show to actually INCREASE hunger and have opiate-like responses that activate 'addiction' centers in the brain.

Yes, obese people tend to over eat and be less active. But WHY they over eat and remain less active is just now coming to light ..and most signs are pointing at the damaging neurophysiological effects of HFCS and refined carbohydrates.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Not really. As long as you are getting the fruits and veggies in as well you can eat as much junk as you want and still live a healthy life style. Being healthy is overly simple. People make it far to complicated

I disagree, and I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a reputable dietitian on board with your plan. The composition of your diet has a lot to do with your ability to burn those calories off, as well as impacts on things like sodium levels.

[MoneyGuy]

I have no problem with taxes and fees on stuff over which we have control that are bad for us.

-Soft drinks, junk food - tax!
-Alcohol - tax!
-Overweight - pay more for insurance and airline tickets!
-Skiing and go out of bounds and get lost - pay up for the rescue!
-Canucks fan - stupid tax!
-Overweight, smoker, lifestyle issues - pay more for healthcare!

That last one would be controversial, but why not? If it's truly beyond someone's control, then maybe give an exemption, but I think that weight is almost always the product of lifestyle and diet.

I carry a few too many pounds but know that's something I can control. Maybe I'd lose the weight if I was paying more for some things.

[fundmark19]

Then why do diets such as the twinkie diet work? Not only losing weight but also making every aspect of his life that he could measure healthier. I have lost 40 lbs using this theory in a year. Not doing any excessive exercises other then lacrosse and tennis twice a week and I went from not being able to breath after trying to run 5k to running 21k last night.

I would assume being able to run that distance would mean as a whole my body is healthier

[REDVAN]

I am conflicted about this-

On one hand, I think if you use more you should pay more.

But on the other hand, some people are naturally bigger. Why should they pay extra when they have no control over their genes? I guess my issue is: where is the cutoff point, and who decides it? It seems far too arbitrary and judgmental.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Then why do diets such as the twinkie diet work? Not only losing weight but also making every aspect of his life that he could measure healthier. I have lost 40 lbs using this theory in a year. Not doing any excessive exercises other then lacrosse and tennis twice a week and I went from not being able to breath after trying to run 5k to running 21k last night.

I would assume being able to run that distance would mean as a whole my body is healthier

Fundmark, I guess you would have to define what work means? (Sorry, I haven't read through the entire thread if this has been examined)

Everyone is wired up a little differently. I have no doubt this guy experienced short term 'results' whatever he was doing. I would be interested in seeing the effects of long term metabolic derangement with such a diet, however. I have never seen even one of these extreme fad diets be sustainable long term. No because the person wasn't able to maintain the diet, but because the 'results' eventually began to reverse themselves.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Then why do diets such as the twinkie diet work? Not only losing weight but also making every aspect of his life that he could measure healthier. I have lost 40 lbs using this theory in a year. Not doing any excessive exercises other then lacrosse and tennis twice a week and I went from not being able to breath after trying to run 5k to running 21k last night.

I would assume being able to run that distance would mean as a whole my body is healthier

There's no doubt that you'd be healthier, but a junk food dominant diet is not a healthy lifestyle. All the salt, sugar and chemicals will kill a person. just as swiftly as the extra calories.

I lost plenty of weight while still eating like crap, but eating an actual balanced diet is what made me feel healthy and gave me the ability to perform ever task better than I thought possible.

Calories make you fat or thin, but nutrients make you healthy or sick. There's no room for debate on that.

[fundmark19]

I wasn't trying to say just junk food diet as you still need nutrients. What I am trying to get at is you don't need to have a strict diet excluding foods like wheat's and flour. All you have to do is be aware of what you are eating and at the end of the day take in less calories then your put out and you won't become obese and will live a relative healthy lifestyle.

Here is an article about twinkie diet
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...sor/index.html

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

You guys do know that you don't need the healthiest of foods to not become obese right? It is all about calorie intake. Doesn't matter what food you are buying at the store. Eat less calories then you exert and you will live never get obese. You want to eat a whole panormous pizza? Go ahead just go do something to burn off those calories afterwords.

Heh. Given that a whole panormous pizza is 4000 calories, or about double what a human being should have in a day, you'd have to "do something" pretty damn intensive. I typically burn 1800 running a half marathon, so I guess I'd have to run a full marathon and then jump on the exercise bike for an hour.

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Heh. Given that a whole panormous pizza is 4000 calories, or about double what a human being should have in a day, you'd have to "do something" pretty damn intensive. I typically burn 1800 running a half marathon, so I guess I'd have to run a full marathon and then jump on the exercise bike for an hour.

Don't forget you burn aprox 1800 calories a day by default! (depending on your body)

[scotty2hotty]

I can guarantee you that I eat more than 1800 calories a day. Why don't I gain weight?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, Fundmark. Just debating that calories in / calories out are not the entire picture when it comes to weight. They are a part of the picture, but not the whole picture ... as many nutritionists espouse.

[fundmark19]

I didn't say some people can eat more and not gain weight. Just that if everyone were to follow calories in out then they wouldn't be obese. Some people have bodies that metabolize faster for some reason and they don't need to follow it.

Even though you eat more then 1800 calories a day if you ate less then that you still wouldn't gain weight there for still not becoming obese which is the end result is it not?

If you take in less then you exert there is no way you will become obese. That is all I am trying to get at.

[allicat]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

You guys do know that you don't need the healthiest of foods to not become obese right? It is all about calorie intake. Doesn't matter what food you are buying at the store. Eat less calories then you exert and you will live never get obese. You want to eat a whole panormous pizza? Go ahead just go do something to burn off those calories afterwords.

Here's the thing (and I know other posters have responded already, but I had to chime in), it's not just about losing weight and not being obese. Clearly, being obese is unhealthy. But it isn't all about losing weight. It's about being healthy on the inside. Food is the BIGGEST part of that. You can't just exercise excess calories away as a permanent solution. I lost 35lbs in the last year (doesn't sound like a lot but I'm female and I wasn't exactly obese, just unhappy with myself) and the real weight loss didn't start to happen until I took a SERIOUS look at my diet. Telling people they can basically eat whatever they want and just exercise more is one of the worst lies you can tell people hoping to lose weight.

People need to eat healthy not just for the external benefit of looking better in a bikini or wearing a smaller size, they need to do it for the health of their bodies on the inside. I feel better now than I ever did before because I eat well, and I didn't go into the weight loss journey looking for this outcome. All I cared about was that number on the scale, baby (which by the way is also a really atrocious way of judging overall health...). Do I enjoy a glass of wine and a piece of chocolate cake occasionally? Of course I do. That's life. But I know it's a treat not something I'll have everyday and just exercise the calories away!

[scotty2hotty]

Exactly. If calories in/ calories out doesn't work for everyone ... then maybe where those calories come from play a big role as well?

And I still don't agree that eating less would always result in less obesity. I know plenty of people who go on calorie restricted diets and never lose weight. But maybe that's the metabolism thing you were talking about?

I would counter that again with saying that it's most likely where their calories are coming from that are causing their 'slow metabolism'.

Anyway, interesting debate none the less.

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

Exactly. If calories in/ calories out doesn't work for everyone ... then maybe where those calories come from play a big role as well?

And I still don't agree that eating less would always result in less obesity. I know plenty of people who go on calorie restricted diets and never lose weight. But maybe that's the metabolism thing you were talking about?

I would counter that again with saying that it's most likely where their calories are coming from that are causing their 'slow metabolism'.

Anyway, interesting debate none the less.

But is their body burning more calories? Just because you restrict your calories and say go by the average of your body naturally burning 1400 calories a day. How do you know your body is actually burning that amount of calories each day? Many people who go on calorie restricted diet's don't put in the physical work to ensure they are burning the calories.

The best part about debating anything that involves the human body is that their is so many "unknown" factors.

[scotty2hotty]

Again, I think you're arguing my point for me.

The chances of actually taking in the exact same amount of calories that you are expending in a day is completely impossible. Our weights would wildly fluctuate throughout the year if calories were all that mattered.

It is much more complex than that (and I'm not pretending to know all of the answers).

[allicat]

Agreed - there are unknowns. But it's fairly well known that if you feed your body good things you'll get good results. Just eat sensibly. Maybe the problem is that so many people, for whatever reason, don't know what 'sensibly' means with regards to food? It certainly doesn't mean pre-packaged meals loaded with sodium/sugar/chemicals. It's mind-boggling to me that otherwise fully capable, confident adults can think that Kraft Dinner made from CAULIFLOWER is good for them. REALLY?!?! If it comes in a box, take a second look. It probably isn't as good as it seems.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by allicat

Agreed - there are unknowns. But it's fairly well known that if you feed your body good things you'll get good results. Just eat sensibly. Maybe the problem is that so many people, for whatever reason, don't know what 'sensibly' means with regards to food? It certainly doesn't mean pre-packaged meals loaded with sodium/sugar/chemicals. It's mind-boggling to me that otherwise fully capable, confident adults can think that Kraft Dinner made from CAULIFLOWER is good for them. REALLY?!?! If it comes in a box, take a second look. It probably isn't as good as it seems.

Hehehe ...WTF is Kraft Dinner made from cauliflower?

And do you consider cauliflower unhealthy?

[fundmark19]

Are you serious is it actually? I eat tons of Kraft Dinner when the wife isn't home because it is easy. All this time I thought I was eating junk. I would feel way better about myself if I knew it was cauliflower