Vancouver loses top spot on world's most livable cities list

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I wasn't the first one to refer to Hastings in this thread and I used it to keep the point of reference the same. So lose the righteous attitude since it doesn't suit someone like you.



Can you back that up with anything other than fictional tv shows?

Read my last post. I'll let you look up crime stats if you want to try and prove me wrong. Something tells me that I'm right on that one though.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I wasn't the first one to refer to Hastings in this thread and I used it to keep the point of reference the same. So lose the righteous attitude since it doesn't suit someone like you.



Can you back that up with anything other than fictional tv shows?

Seriously though? You would find US cities safer than Vancouver? I lived in Orlando and Tampa for just over a year and there is no way in hell i would walk around in some of those neighborhoods over east hastings.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

^^Okay, let's compare crime and murder rates from the downtown east side to the ghettos of fine American cities like Detroit, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Cleveland etc....


Yeah, there's a disgusting drug problem going on down there, but it's nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be. It's not a slum. It's a pretty bad area, but if I walk down there right now, I'm making it out alive and with my wallet in my pocket and will run into no problems.

Point being is that i would feel a lot safer walking thru the Downtown east side than I would down the streets of plenty of American cities.

I'm not making it out to be anything. I'm quoting people, who are a lot more qualified than your or I, who are talking about the problems there. I'm not the one calling the place an epidemic, the World Health Organization is.

Maybe you should talk a walk along there, step on an AIDS needle and see how safe you feel then!

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Calgary would be number 1 in the world if they stopped building out and started building up. Like seriously we are already one of the world's largest city area wise. We need to stop building out into the boonies.

I hope you are joking.

From http://www.citymayors.com/statistics...-area-125.html

Rank City / Urban area Land area
(in sqKm)
1 New York Metro 8,683
2 Tokyo/Yokohama 6,993
3 Chicago 5,498
4 Atlanta 5,083
5 Philadelphia 4,661
6 Boston 4,497
7 Los Angeles 4,320
8 Dallas/Fort Worth 3,644
9 Houston 3,355
10 Detroit 3,267
11 Washington 2,996
12 Miami 2,891
13 Nagoya 2,875
14 Paris 2,723
15 Essen/Düsseldorf 2,642
16 Osaka/Kobe/Kyoto 2,564
17 Seattle 2,470
18 Johannesburg/East Rand 2,396
19 Minneapolis/St. Paul 2,316
20 San Juan 2,309
21 Buenos Aires 2,266
22 Pittsburgh 2,208
23 Moscow 2,150
24 St. Louis 2,147
25 Melbourne 2,080
26 Tampa//St. Petersburg 2,078
27 Mexico City 2,072
28 Phoenix/Mesa 2,069
....


117 Dubai 712
118 Harare 712
119 Budapest 702
120 Calgary 702
121 Sarasota//Bradenton 700
122 Columbia 697
123 Cape Town 686
124 Poughkeepsie 686
125 Tehran 686

[opendoor]

I guess it depends on what someone thinks is worse, a heavily concentrated slum that extends for about 7-8 blocks or a slightly less concentrated slum that makes up a huge portion of a city. Personally I've felt less safe in parts of Los Angeles, New York, Detroit, Dallas, San Francisco, Philadelphia, New Orleans, Miami, Washington DC, and about a dozen other US cities than I ever have in downtown Vancouver. I've been to entire towns in the American South that look worse and felt more dangerous than the worst slums in Canada.

I never really realized how clean and prosperous even the poorest Canadian areas are until I traveled extensively through the USA.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I'm not making it out to be anything. I'm quoting people, who are a lot more qualified than your or I, who are talking about the problems there. I'm not the one calling the place an epidemic, the World Health Organization is.

Maybe you should talk a walk along there, step on an AIDS needle and see how safe you feel then!

You were calling it a slum and called it the worst in north america. You backed it up with some stats about the concentration of the drug use. A bad 8 block stretch of horrible drug use makes it a "slum".

And for the record, about 4 months ago, I was meeting my buddies at the Number Five Orange. A disgusting strip bar in the heart of the downtown east side. I knew i was going to be drinking, so I trained down to Main Street station and walked the rest of the way. It's about a KM walk and all along main street. I crossed Main and Hastings, the most notorious of the downtown east side intersections. It was 1130 on a Saturday night. I didn't step on any needles. I didn't get jumped, nothing happened. I didn't even think twice about taking the walk. Yes the drugs are bad, and the area is bad, but it's not un safe. It's just gross. I wouldn't even consider taking a 15 minute walk in downtown Detroit at 1130pm on a Saturday night.

Seriously bud, before you make ridiculous claims, know what you're talking about.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I'm not making it out to be anything. I'm quoting people, who are a lot more qualified than your or I, who are talking about the problems there. I'm not the one calling the place an epidemic, the World Health Organization is.

Maybe you should talk a walk along there, step on an AIDS needle and see how safe you feel then!

I think the point he's trying to make is that you are unlikely to be attacked on Vancouver's downtown east side. I agree with him. Yes, there is a horrific drug problem down there. But you are very unlikely to get shot or even mugged if you walk through that stretch of blocks. Unlike some American ghettos where at least a robbery would be highly likely.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

You were calling it a slum and called it the worst in north america. You backed it up with some stats about the concentration of the drug use.

Hmm... We have a respectable publication discussing the highest drug use and the highest AIDs rates in N.America on the side of "worst slum."

On the side of "not the worst slum" we have a realistic episode of the wire and an anecdote of how you spent a weekend evening.

Yes, clearly he should be the one doing more research.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I think the point he's trying to make is that you are unlikely to be attacked on Vancouver's downtown east side. I agree with him. Yes, there is a horrific drug problem down there. But you are very unlikely to get shot or even mugged if you walk through that stretch of blocks. Unlike some American ghettos where at least a robbery would be highly likely.

Maybe the dispute is on the definition of the word slum. "Most likely to be mugged" and "highest illegal narcotics use" both seem pretty bad to me. It's not like "Detroit is worse" is an argument for being the best city in the world

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Hmm... We have a respectable publication discussing the highest drug use and the highest AIDs rates in N.America on the side of "worst slum."

On the side of "not the worst slum" we have a realistic episode of the wire and an anecdote of how you spent a weekend evening.

Yes, clearly he should be the one doing more research.

Well, this is all a matter of how you define slum and what place is safer.

do you really want me to link crime and murder rates from the downtown east side of Vancouver to dozens of Amercian cities. Do I really need to do that? Come on.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Not at all....





http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35160185...ious-skid-row/

I've lived in Detroit, I live in Manhattan, I've spent time in Baltimore, Buffalo, Philadelphia, Miami and Chicago. Everysingle one of those cities has areas that are many times more dangerous than anywhere in Vancouver. A few blocks of drug users compared to entire communities where gunshots are a typical backing track.

[burn_this_city]

I was in downtown Detroit at 11 on a Saturday in July, some dude asked me for a couple bucks to catch the bus. Based on my experience it is also a safe place.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by valo403

I've lived in Detroit, I live in Manhattan, I've spent time in Baltimore, Buffalo, Philadelphia, Miami and Chicago. Everysingle one of those cities has areas that are many times more dangerous than anywhere in Vancouver. A few blocks of drug users compared to entire communities where gunshots are a typical backing track.

Scary thing is that Detroit right now is probably worse than the Detroit in Robocop.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

Well, this is all a matter of how you define slum and what place is safer.

That's fair enough. If you define slum as "most likely to be mugged" then you're absolutely right. If it's "most filled with hopeless drug addicts" then Vancouver has a shot. Both definitions seem reasonable to me, but any city that's competing for either of those titles probably isn't the "best/most" livable city in the world, which is the thread topic.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Seriously though? You would find US cities safer than Vancouver? I lived in Orlando and Tampa for just over a year and there is no way in hell i would walk around in some of those neighborhoods over east hastings.

Maybe you've got some soft of addiction to crack or hookers that requires you to walk through slums but I'm steering clear all of them instead of ranking which ones I prefer.

Seriously, why were you walking through bad neighbourhoods in Orlando and Tampa?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I was in downtown Detroit at 11 on a Saturday in July, some dude asked me for a couple bucks to catch the bus. Based on my experience it is also a safe place.

The immediate downtown isn't actually all that bad, it's more abandoned than anything. It's not safe, but you'll probably be okay the majority of the time. The same can't be said for some of the communities near downtown though, they're like the wild west.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I was in downtown Detroit at 11 on a Saturday in July, some dude asked me for a couple bucks to catch the bus. Based on my experience it is also a safe place.

I went down to Six flags Buffalo from TO once. Witnessed a near stabbing and a black punk beating up a white girl with not a single person trying to help all in the span of a day. Based on my experience the US is filled with violent demon spawn and I'll take Vancouver's drug addicts destroying themselves anyday.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Maybe you've got some soft of addiction to crack or hookers that requires you to walk through slums but I'm steering clear all of them instead of ranking which ones I prefer.

Seriously, why were you walking through bad neighbourhoods in Orlando and Tampa?

There is no comparison between cities in the Canada and the US. Have you even been to Vancouver? Yes it may be the armpit of Canada(an armpit with the best chinese food and sushi in the world), but nothing is comparable to the places in the states.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Maybe you've got some soft of addiction to crack or hookers that requires you to walk through slums but I'm steering clear all of them instead of ranking which ones I prefer.

Seriously, why were you walking through bad neighbourhoods in Orlando and Tampa?

You are comparing apples and oranges. Vancouver's downtown east side is an entirely different kind of slum than some of the American ghettos that have been mentioned. The risk to your personal safety is far less there. If you want to use it as your personal basis for Vancouver being a bad place to live, go ahead...but the area isn't a real threat to you if you live in Vancouver. You probably have a better chance of getting assaulted at one of the bars on Granville on the weekend.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

You were calling it a slum and called it the worst in north america.

I did not say that. Either quote my posts or improve your reading comprehension so that you can accurate restate what I've posted.

You backed it up with some stats about the concentration of the drug use. A bad 8 block stretch of horrible drug use makes it a "slum".

Since you are incapable of figuring out how to use an online dictionary, I'll help you out and quote the definition of a slum...

a densely populated usually urban area marked by crowding, dirty run-down housing, poverty, and social disorganization

Now which part of that is inaccurate?

And for the record, about 4 months ago, I was meeting my buddies at the Number Five Orange. A disgusting strip bar in the heart of the downtown east side. I knew i was going to be drinking, so I trained down to Main Street station and walked the rest of the way. It's about a KM walk and all along main street. I crossed Main and Hastings, the most notorious of the downtown east side intersections. It was 1130 on a Saturday night. I didn't step on any needles. I didn't get jumped, nothing happened. I didn't even think twice about taking the walk. Yes the drugs are bad, and the area is bad, but it's not un safe. It's just gross. I wouldn't even consider taking a 15 minute walk in downtown Detroit at 1130pm on a Saturday night.

Seriously bud, before you make ridiculous claims, know what you're talking about.

You should know what you're talking about before you start spouting off. Where in that definition of a slum does it include anything about being dangerous or unsafe?