Oilsands/Keystone Pipeline Protests in Washington D.C.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

There are other big factors that are important when thinking about where companies will build thier upgrading/refining capacities.

Production companies only have so much capital, they aren't going to spend it on an upgrader/refinery when that isn't their core business. They're better at gettting the stuff out of the ground, so they spend their limited capital on that, where they'll get better returns, and let some midstreamer (or integrated company) worry about the midstreaminging. That means the producers may not have much say in where the midstream facilites get built.

[mykalberta]

I thought the reason they were building upgraders were 2 fold.

1 - they get a better price at the refinery vs non upgraded
2 - with such limited pipeline space upgraded bitumen takes less space on the pipeline as non upgraded bitumen

If it was such a great business opportunity as some suggest for refinery's in Alberta, why isnt a rich private citizen funding it, or why not a group of socially concerned individuals from Toronto or Montreal funding it.

[ThisYear]

They can protest as much as they want ..... it'll still happen.

[Clarkey]

Obams, what are you doing?

Flip flop.

[Azure]

He's trying to gain political brownie points from the environmental side, and those that don't agree with building.

Pretty ridiculous.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

Obams, what are you doing?

Flip flop.

The only thing I guess he can do, which is try to prop up a failed Presidency on the back on the far left Environmental Groups in hopes of getting a second term.

But I think he's going to get ripped apart in any debate on this, lets see Mr President you sacrificed the immediate energy needs of the Country and tossed aside thousands of jobs and billions of dollars for environmental groups, in a the worst period of economic recession since the Great Depression, thats some nice work Mr President.

[Clarkey]

The environmental folks will still vote for him begrudgingly, it's not like they will switch to the republicans.

I suppose he was worried they may not commit as much to campaigning and funding over the next year if he passed it.

It was an opportunity for him to take a stand show he has some balls and take credit for a major jobs package. Instead he flip-flopped and just looks indecisive and weak.

[The Goon]

The problem is the delay took the decision into a point in time where it would be a major election issue. So now they've deferred the decision until Nov.5 next year, and then the Obama administration will push it through.

(Or the Republicans, should they win in 2012.)

[Ducay]

Ya, it was to defer it as an election issue. Don't blame the guy, although its not likely it would cost him votes to republicans (hippies don't generally vote repub)

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by The Goon

The problem is the delay took the decision into a point in time where it would be a major election issue. So now they've deferred the decision until Nov.5 next year, and then the Obama administration will push it through.

(Or the Republicans, should they win in 2012.)

But now its going to be a major election issue. There's no doubt that Obama is going to be attacked on his failed economic programs, and on top of that his failure to create jobs and boost employment.

While I doubt that this will totally torpedo his election hopes, I doubt that he's going to get away with a generic Kennedyesque type of Campaign this year. If Romey for example is the guy to go against Obama this is a arrow in his quiver to attack Obama.

[seattleflamer]

Originally Posted by Azure

He's trying to gain political brownie points from the environmental side, and those that don't agree with building.

Pretty ridiculous.

So what does Obama gain politically from listening to the good people of Nebraska who consistently vote Republican?

Republican Governor of Nebraska Heineman states in his press release a couple of weeks ago:

...which is why I have urged President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton to deny the permit,” said Gov. Heineman. “However, I believe Nebraskans are expecting our best efforts to determine if alternatives exist."

http://www.governor.nebraska.gov/new..._piplines.html

You really believe the Pres and Gov are kowtowing to Brad Pitt and enviromentalist? Is it possible that maybe, just maybe they are listening to their constituency affected by this process like ranchers, farmers, landowners etc?

The pipeline will be built no matter what administration but it seems like a huge issue in Nebraska that they are exercising their right to review despite it being legally within federal purview.

I'm not sure why in this specific instance, the right wing doesn't give Obama props for acknowledging States' rights. Cherry picking?

[Azure]

Is Obama going to win the electoral votes that Nebraska has? I doubt it. So why would he give a crap what they say?

They can thump their chests all they want and make it seem like what they wanted really mattered, but the truth of it is nobody gives a crap what they think. When 100,000 jobs are on the line and it becomes an election issue with the possibility of losing left-wing votes if you approve the pipeline, then by all means they will push it off another 18 months.

The Feds have been reviewing this for how long? And now suddenly what the people of Nebraska are saying matters? Really?

[Thrillingbroom]

If the route was such a problem why didn't they say something about it three years ago, when the pipeline was originally proposed?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Thrillingbroom

If the route was such a problem why didn't they say something about it three years ago, when the pipeline was originally proposed?

Exactly.

The people of Nebraska have long been aware of what was at stake, and especially with what was involved.

Now, after how many reviews, debates and extensions, suddenly it is SUCH a big problem that the State Department is delaying the decision for 18 months because a few farmers in Nebraska have concerns?

This is 100% a political issue. Has nothing to do with a few farmers.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Azure

Exactly.

The people of Nebraska have long been aware of what was at stake, and especially with what was involved.

Now, after how many reviews, debates and extensions, suddenly it is SUCH a big problem that the State Department is delaying the decision for 18 months because a few farmers in Nebraska have concerns?

This is 100% a political issue. Has nothing to do with a few farmers.

The Democrats are catering to their loud influential celebrity environmentalist supporters, who promote their belief that the 'Tarsands" are an evil abomination. Lets face it, its easy to attack something if it semingly only effects Canadians, whom Americans don't care about, know nothing about, and actually resent. Democratic support is on the East coast and West coast. why should they care about jobs for midwesterners who won't vote for them anyway?

[Montana Moe]

Well, they usually get one electoral vote from Nebraska, but there's no way they'll win all 5.

[seattleflamer]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Democrats are catering to their loud influential celebrity environmentalist supporters, who promote their belief that the 'Tarsands" are an evil abomination.

It is very difficult to sell the tarsands to anyone with any sense of aesthic or likes the way the earth looks today. You know lots of blues, greens, and whites. Certainly not the way the earth looked 5 billion years ago unless you're bacteria. The open pit mines are a gawd awful looking place that's straight out of Dante's inferno.

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Now, after how many reviews, debates and extensions, suddenly it is SUCH a big problem that the State Department is delaying the decision for 18 months because a few farmers in Nebraska have concerns? This is 100% a political issue. Has nothing to do with a few farmers.

Of course it is political but the delay is as much and if not more a result of good old local interests and NIMBYism than the conservation movement's influence. Governor wrote a letter to the administration asking for a delay and received it.

Per the NYTimes on 11/10:

Public officials and citizens in Nebraska have been vocal about the proposed pipeline route, not only because of fears about the Sand Hills region but because it will cross the Ogallala Aquifer, a critical source of drinking water for the Great Plains. Gov. Dave Heineman of Nebraska, a Republican, has been pushing for the pipeline to be rerouted and recently called a special legislative session to focus on Keystone XL.

“I am pleased that Nebraskans have been heard,” Mr. Heineman said in a telephone interview. “We’ve tried to make it very clear that we support the pipeline but oppose the route over the Ogallala Aquifer,” Mr. Heineman said, adding he was not expecting the State Department’s decision. “I hope we can find a common-sense solution, change the route and begin construction of the pipeline.”

It doesn't hurt punting it to a governance/national security issue past '12 rather regardless of who wins than an unnessarily political one which could result in good politics/bad policy.

Lastly, conservationists and the far left are Obama's hostages. They haven't been enthusiastic about his presidency since he continued Bush's decision on drilling in the Gulf weeks before the BP oil spill. Obama's left flank is pretty secure just because there is no alternative.

In other words, he is hardly swayed by what Brad Pitt or Barbara Streisand have to say...loves their money and attention during fund raising but their effect on public policy, not so much.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by seattleflamer

Per the NYTimes on 11/10:

“I am pleased that Nebraskans have been heard,” Mr. Heineman said in a telephone interview. “We’ve tried to make it very clear that we support the pipeline but oppose the route over the Ogallala Aquifer,” Mr. Heineman said, adding he was not expecting the State Department’s decision. “I hope we can find a common-sense solution, change the route and begin construction of the pipeline.”

.

Thanks for the post. I wasn't aware that the Nebraska governor actually supports the pipeline. I certainly hope that was the reason for the delay and not the shrill voices of pampered Hollywood twits. You are certainly right that the environmental movement has nowhere else to go with its votes, short of abstaining from voting or starting a one issue party ala the Greens.

[Azure]

Some now we'll find out if the farmers were the real reason that the decision got delayed. Because they found a compromise.

A compromise between top Nebraska politicians and TransCanada Corp. to reroute the Keystone XL oil pipeline around a critical state aquifer has injected new life into the Canadian-led project and upended President Barack Obama’s plan to bury a political hot potato until after the 2012 election.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ontent=2237613

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Azure

Some now we'll find out if the farmers were the real reason that the decision got delayed. Because they found a compromise.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ontent=2237613

This is perfect. Now it will expose that deep down Obama wants to nix this thing altogether and that it was never about the route, but rather about the special interests and politics.