Pastor in US burns Koran, Afghans kill 8 UN workers in protest - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

T@T · 04-01-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

A serious question. Please take into note that I am not a believer in any real way, and that I will most likely respond with criticisms, but yes, it was sincere.

Question? what do you mean by in any real way?

In your mind. Surely in your mind god exists or he doesn't! get off the fence before you fall on your head.

NuclearFart · 04-01-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall

Ummm yes....For example, Communists murdered and enslaved millions of people because they held religious beliefs and refused to believe in their own version of atheism.

You are criticizing communism, under the guise of it being equivocal to atheism. Your entire argument is flawed as a textbook straw man fallacy.

peter12 · 04-01-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T@T

Question? what do you mean by in any real way?

In your mind. Surely in your mind god exists or he doesn't! get off the fence before you fall on your head.

I am taken with the idea of theology and the soul, but not necessarily getting into heaven.

"With the existential determination of the essence of man, therefore, nothing is decided about the "existence of God" or his "non-being," no more than about the possibility of gods. Thus it is not only rash but also an error in procedure to maintain that the interpretation of the essence of man from the relation of his essence to the truth of Being is atheism."

Heidegger - Letter on Humanism

troutman · 04-01-2011, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

If not believing in something = an ideology, what is the name of the ideology held by the people who don't believe in bigfoot?

Sasquashers.

BigBrodieFan · 04-01-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troutman

Sasquashers.

I laughed.

FlamesAddiction · 04-01-2011, 02:13 PM

Atheism in the strictest sense isn't an ideology, but I think it is something that often shapes ideology or becomes a foundation for ideologic behaviour. If atheism becomes the driving point for a cause where non-atheist insitutions are diminished, attacked or removed, then it seems to act like ideology IMO.

T@T · 04-01-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

I am taken with the idea of theology and the soul, but not necessarily getting into heaven.

So, where do you believe your "soul" goes after your body dies? another dimension perhaps? I say this because I know people who think that their atheists but they also believe in ghosts(which I find strange thinking)

I usually chalk this up to people being afraid that when they die...they are just dead, they feel the need to think that something will live on.

T@T · 04-01-2011, 02:17 PM

Did anyone wake up today thinking they would spend april-1st at their desk talking religion?

peter12 · 04-01-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T@T

So, where do you believe your "soul" goes after your body dies? another dimension perhaps? I say this because I know people who think that their atheists but they also believe in ghosts(which I find strange thinking)

I usually chalk this up to people being afraid that when they die...they are just dead, they feel the need to think that something will live on.

We probably die, but to me, that's a very irrelevant question. I mean, I believe in spirits insofar that I think humanity is a spiritual species. Not in a hokey spiritualist kind of way, of course, but in a way that transcends materialism and self-interest.

blankall · 04-01-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

You are criticizing communism, under the guise of it being equivocal to atheism. Your entire argument is flawed as a textbook straw man fallacy.

Wrong. Communists attacked other communists who did not give up their religion. It had nothing to do with communism in many cases.

By your logic I could use the people who do X in the name of religion are not truely following the religion argument.

If anyone is using a straw man argument it's you.

T@T · 04-01-2011, 02:25 PM

I believe the human spirit lives on. the human brain has got very powerfull over the years, my parents for example live on and will for me until I die...in my memory.

blankall · 04-01-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Wait, what? Atheism is categorically denying the existence of a God. Religion is categorically believing in the existence of a God. Neither can be proven in any way whatsoever and both rely on irrational faith.

If you tell me there is a cat behind the house, it may be up to you to prove it, but I can in no way categorically deny the existence of a cat behind the house. Reason doesn't allow it. Ask Descartes.

This sums it up perfectly.

Both atheist and those that follow religion have an ideology about something that cannot be logically proven either way.

The only ones who can make a case that they have no idelogy are agnostics, people who are open to the belief in god(s) but not sure they exists.

blankall · 04-01-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Atheism is not an ideology; it's not even a single belief, much less a system of interconnected beliefs, and by itself atheism does not guide anyone, anywhere. The same would be true if we defined atheism narrowly as denial of the existence of gods: that single belief is not a system of principles.

It is a belief. It is a belief that there is no god. There is no sould. There is only the physical world. This is a system of beliefs. Physics and science rule the natural world solely. These are all interconnected beliefs.

The difference between agnositics and atheists is that atheists are entirely sure of their system of beliefs. That's called an ideology.

Dion · 04-01-2011, 02:28 PM

Frisbeetarianism

The philosophy that when you die, your soul goes up on a roof and gets stuck. (George Carlin)

blankall · 04-01-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

It's morons all around, no doubt about it.

One person burned a book, the other people killed some innocent humans.

The way the moron-ness is demonstrated is very different. One way (the killing way) is way worse than the other way (the book burning way).

One way (burning a book....well as long as you do it symbolically and not for the purpose of ensuring nooone else can read the content of the book) is a key part of free and democratic society. Murder for religious beliefs is everything a free society should be designed to avoid.

So I would say the two actions sit on very very opposite sides of the spectrum.

Dion · 04-01-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

If not believing in something = an ideology, what is the name of the ideology held by the people who don't believe in bigfoot?

bigfootism...

Reggie Dunlop · 04-01-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall

Both atheist and those that follow religion have an ideology about something that cannot be logically proven either way.

The only ones who can make a case that they have no idelogy are agnostics, people who are open to the belief in god(s) but not sure they exists.

I've not stated that I have no ideology, only that atheism is not an ideology.

It's not incumbent on me to disprove the existence of god(s) any more than it is not incumbent on me to disprove a flat earth.

Nonexistence is what it is, not what it is not.

The Yen Man · 04-01-2011, 02:32 PM

I agree that the severity of what the pastor did (burning a book) vs. what the terrorists did (killing innocent people) are not comparable.

However, I feel the idiot pastor is just as responsible for those deaths because he basically dared the terrorists to do something.

If a psychopath was holding a little girl hostage and told a person if he walked forward, he would kill the little girl, and the person still walked forward daring the psychopath to do it, then I feel that person is just as responsible for her death.

blankall · 04-01-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

I've not stated that I have no ideology, only that atheism is not an ideology.

It's not incumbent on me to disprove the existence of god(s) any more than it is not incumbent on me to disprove a flat earth.

Nonexistence is what it is.

Bad example.

The fact the Earth is not flat can be easily disproven by an overwhelming amount of evidence.

The existence of god can neither be proven or disproven. Hence the term "faith". Belief either way requires exactly that...a belief.

Reggie Dunlop · 04-01-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall

It is a belief. It is a belief that there is no god. There is no sould. There is only the physical world. This is a system of beliefs. Physics and science rule the natural world solely. These are all interconnected beliefs.

Science is not a belief system. It is a method for perceiving, gathering, organizing and testing the validity of data.