Libya headed for civil war? Update: Gadhafi dead

[Slava]

^ and whats more we don't know that democracy is what comes to fill the void in Libya. It could be democracy or it could be another despot. Libya has been so crushed for the past 40 years that really its hard to know.

[Golden Jet]

When Khadaffi starts murdering his citizens like he is doing, he won't last much longer...

[Golden Jet]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Thing is we don't actually want democracy in Eygpt and Libya, the plan was for democracy in Iran and Iraq, and only our kind of democracy at that (non Islamic)

What other kind of democracy is there? Extremist Muslim rule is certainly not democratic.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Golden Jet

What other kind of democracy is there? Extremist Muslim rule is certainly not democratic.

Well it is if that is what the locals want.

funnily enough not everyone wants to live like us.

[Pooty]

yeah, that void in Libya could very well be filled by something that isn't democracy, but at this point anything seems better than the craziness that is ensuing. When you take fire on your own people, especially those that are mourning those that have already died, you know that something seriously needs to change.

In the end, I think the type of democracy that the Libyan people need is really what afc was talking about, and that's the freedom to choose their own futures, whether that's what we think is best or not.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Well it is if that is what the locals want.

funnily enough not everyone wants to live like us.

There's a difference between mob rule and democracy. Democracy by definition needs to include freedom of religion. Theocratic rule cannot be democratic, even if every person but one votes for it.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by blankall

There's a difference between mob rule and democracy. Democracy by definition needs to include freedom of religion. Theocratic rule cannot be democratic, even if every person but one votes for it.

I don't agree, if the majority vote for a theocracy every 4 or 5 years it is by definition a democracy, granted a theocracy isn't likey to go back to the voters once in, but that doesn't alter the concept of a democratic theocracy, democracy doesn't ensure a constitution just a vote.

[T@T]

I find it amazing Gadhafi lasted this long, he spit in the faces of his own people and a lot of countries over the years.

[Shin Pad]

I'm worried about some of these countries turning into Islamic Fundamentalist states. I think that would be even worse than the dictatorships that are being toppled. They will end up being fertile grounds for exporting terrorism.

[burn_this_city]

Its pretty disappointing to hear all the "tough" talk from the international community about sanctions on Libya. What the hell are sanctions going to accomplish in a situation like this? These people need a no fly zone setup over the country and humanitarian aid drops. The wallstreet journal has an editorial today suggesting a no fly zone, aid, and weapon drops in the eastern part of the country to help the people who have already driven Gadhafi's forces out.

[Pinner]

If we weren't so friggin dependent on oil we could get tough, as it stands now a stoppage in Libyan or any oil, could F up the world economy again.

Last night I heard an economist state that a 2 week cut of 1/3 oil supply would spike oil by $50 bbl.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Pinner

If we weren't so friggin dependent on oil we could get tough, as it stands now a stoppage in Libyan or any oil, could F up the world economy again.

Last night I heard an economist state that a 2 week cut of 1/3 oil supply would spike oil by $50 bbl.

OPEC said yesterday they could compensate for any supply shortfall. Theres still a couple million barrels a day from OPEC countries that has been shut in since the economic downturn. The pipeline to Italy has already run dry so I dont see what the west has to lose now.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Its pretty disappointing to hear all the "tough" talk from the international community about sanctions on Libya. What the hell are sanctions going to accomplish in a situation like this? These people need a no fly zone setup over the country and humanitarian aid drops. The wallstreet journal has an editorial today suggesting a no fly zone, aid, and weapon drops in the eastern part of the country to help the people who have already driven Gadhafi's forces out.

I don't know about any direct military intervention. The situation in the Middle East is very anti-western and any direct aid might strengthen Gadhafi's hand and stop the current momentum that the peaceful demonstrations across the middle east.

Also doing weapons drops will just lead to a bloodbath and more open fighting. Not sure if thats what's necessary to get rid of Gadhafi at this point.

[transplant99]

On Wednesday, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad urged leaders of regional countries to let their people express their opinions, according to the Islamic Republic News Agency. The Iranian official news agency also reported that Ahmadinejad wondered how the ruler of a country could kill his own people using guns and tanks.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa...ex.html?hpt=T1

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa...ex.html?hpt=T1

Amadinejad questioning how a ruler can kill his own people? HA. Since all the other countries in the region have been anti-Iran for the longest time, makes sense he would try to exploit the power vacuum that's going to come.

[Old Yeller]

Thank god the voice of reason has finally spoken!

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

OPEC said yesterday they could compensate for any supply shortfall. Theres still a couple million barrels a day from OPEC countries that has been shut in since the economic downturn. The pipeline to Italy has already run dry so I dont see what the west has to lose now.

Sure the Saudis have extra oil, but there's planned protests in Saudi too

To me this looks like a disaster to any economic recovery.

SAUDI SUPPLIES

Reuters market analyst Wang Tao said technical charts showed Brent could be on course for a rise to $158 per barrel in 2011, well above its 2008 high of $147.50, while he expected U.S. crude to touch $159 per barrel.



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...#ixzz1EstvquP1

[FlamesAddiction]

I wonder how much many Western Capitalist countries really want lasting democracy in that part of the world. Our lifestyles, quality of life and security depend on favourable dealings with leaders in that part of the world. It is usually easier to appeal to one person with absolute power, either through force or persuasion (ie. "aid"), than it is to appeal to a government that has to bow to the whim of the people.

I know most of us truely want what is best for Libyans, Egyptians, Bahrainians, etc..., but I bet many of our leaders are saying; "Oh snap!", behind the scenes.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Sure the Saudis have extra oil, but there's planned protests in Saudi too

To me this looks like a disaster to any economic recovery.

The Saudis will continue production regardless. If somehow their production was shut in, then you would see pricing that makes the last spike look like a real good deal. I remember reading somewhere that if the monarchy fell prices would be $250+.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Sure the Saudis have extra oil, but there's planned protests in Saudi too

To me this looks like a disaster to any economic recovery.

There is very little chance that Saudi Arabia will have the protests that you see in the other countries. The King seems to be generally well liked and the hot button issues there are nowhere near as serious (Right for women to vote, etc.)