Nenshi a hit in Toronto!

[The Goon]

Originally Posted by CM ONE

We don't need our mayor indebted to someone named "The Goon".

I don't want anything in return!

Well, maybe he could zone my in-laws out of the city, now that I think about it...

[zuluking]

“In Calgary, nobody cares who your daddy was. Nobody cares what your last name is or how much money you come from,” he said. “What they care about is what you bring to the table. They care about your ideas, your ability to get things done.”

I love this quote.

[mariners_fever]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Really good quantitative study you've done there.

Fair enough, obviously I didn't have the time to do a full quantitative study for a simple forum post. However, anyone who studies economics and public policy knows instinctively through the study of various past examples that any additional bean counting requires a robust bureaucracy.

In this particular case, it would require a large administrative effort at the federal level to first charge the tax then determine how much should be disseminated to each municipality depending on which ones opt in. Each municipality would then add another level of bureaucracy to ensure that they received the correct amount then disseminate those funds properly as the city sees fit.

It's also the reason why many of the Alberta Advantage ideas that were touted by the right 10 years ago are also bad ideas; they would have created another provincial bureaucratic branch alongside the already existing federal branch.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by mariners_fever

In this particular case, it would require a large administrative effort at the federal level to first charge the tax then determine how much should be disseminated to each municipality depending on which ones opt in. Each municipality would then add another level of bureaucracy to ensure that they received the correct amount then disseminate those funds properly as the city sees fit.

How much extra bureaucracy would it take to collect a 6% GST instead of a 5% GST? My guess would be none. Change the number on the form.

As for the distribution, it could take anywhere from very little to tons. If they just divide up the money every year mechanically (either by population or by location of the business) it shouldn't cost that much. If there is a new funding mechanism with applications and mandarins deciding the details, then it could get very costly.

I'm actually in favour of the GST going up, but I'd rather see personal income taxes go down a compensating amount, than the money be spent. But if it was going to get spent on anything, direct transfers to municipalities for infrastructure would be my first choice.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

How much extra bureaucracy would it take to collect a 6% GST instead of a 5% GST? My guess would be none. Change the number on the form.

I'm in favour of this, but it actually is much more complex. Already, there are complex laws in Canada regarding taxing sales between provinces. If in Alberta and selling a product to Ontario, then someone needs to collect HST on that sale; if you've got a business presence in Ontario, you as the seller are responsible for collecting it. Otherwise, the buyer is responsible. So does a city tax apply to all goods sold by businesses within applicable cities, or does it apply to all goods sold to individuals and businesses within applicable cities. You could have a situation where a company may need to charge 0% on international orders, 5% to non-applicable Alberta residents, 6% to applicable Alberta residents, 7% to non-applicable BC residents, 8% to applicable BC residents, 8% to applicable Ontario residents, 10% to non-applicable Nova Scotia residents, 11% to applicable residents, etc.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Slava

First I think its funny that you thanked the above comment and then can't believe that someone would drag the mayors name through the mud?

Thing is, while Nenshi wants to get stuff done (and most of his things to get done are things I want to see done as well), the reality is that he can't do that on his own. In otherwords if there is a rift on council and aldermen will go out of their way to make life tough for Nenshi that means things could be not getting done....not my first choice to say the least.

I hear you, but why this issue? This has nothing to do with government. Take him to task on the tunnel, the tax idea, etc...something related to governing. Publicly hammering him on this comes across as pure petty politics, which has no place at the civic level IMO.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I'm in favour of this, but it actually is much more complex. Already, there are complex laws in Canada regarding taxing sales between provinces. If in Alberta and selling a product to Ontario, then someone needs to collect HST on that sale; if you've got a business presence in Ontario, you as the seller are responsible for collecting it. Otherwise, the buyer is responsible. So does a city tax apply to all goods sold by businesses within applicable cities, or does it apply to all goods sold to individuals and businesses within applicable cities. You could have a situation where a company may need to charge 0% on international orders, 5% to non-applicable Alberta residents, 6% to applicable Alberta residents, 7% to non-applicable BC residents, 8% to applicable BC residents, 8% to applicable Ontario residents, 10% to non-applicable Nova Scotia residents, 11% to applicable residents, etc.

No extra bureaucracy required if you raise the rate by 1% for everyone nationwide. Letting municipalities opt-in/out is insane. It's like a wet-dream for the CUPE, since as you mention it would take a huge amount of extra workers, and would be a huge extra burden to businesses to stay compliant.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by mariners_fever

Fair enough, obviously I didn't have the time to do a full quantitative study for a simple forum post. However, anyone who studies economics and public policy knows instinctively through the study of various past examples that any additional bean counting requires a robust bureaucracy.

In this particular case, it would require a large administrative effort at the federal level to first charge the tax then determine how much should be disseminated to each municipality depending on which ones opt in. Each municipality would then add another level of bureaucracy to ensure that they received the correct amount then disseminate those funds properly as the city sees fit.

It's also the reason why many of the Alberta Advantage ideas that were touted by the right 10 years ago are also bad ideas; they would have created another provincial bureaucratic branch alongside the already existing federal branch.

I don't have the numbers either, going off gut feel here. But there's no way it would cost 1% of Canada's GDP (GDP's probably a poor word, but you know what I mean) to manage this.

Hate the idea, sure. That's a good debate.

But I doubt there are many economists out there who would tout this as inefficient. Pretty sure they agree that GST one of the most efficient taxes possible. If the added distribution body costs, which admitedly will be large, come anywhere close to 1% GDP then something's wrong.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Colley-Urquhart? Really? Lowe's surprising me a bit with the intensity of his opposition though.

As for any rift, nothing can be worse than the last council. Two distinct camps with absolutely no inclination to work together on things.

Lowe and Farrel for the most part. CU cant even win as a PC in a MLA race, she isnt even on the radar IMO.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

No extra bureaucracy required if you raise the rate by 1% for everyone nationwide. Letting municipalities opt-in/out is insane. It's like a wet-dream for the CUPE, since as you mention it would take a huge amount of extra workers, and would be a huge extra burden to businesses to stay compliant.

Things are always easy in theory, but hard in actual practice. As a person working for a company that has operations in every province in Canada, let me just say tax audits from different provinces and the federal government takes weeks and weeks to do, and a lot of human capital to keep track of.

[Aegypticus]

All this over $721? If someone's idea of buttering me up is flying me coach to Toronto...

[FLAME ENVY]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Man, I hate Gord Lowe. I'm ashamed he's representing my ward. I voted for the Italian guy (Bag something), and I had no idea what his platform was. All I know is, I don't want Lowe representing me.

My exact sentiment. I voted Biaggio on the same premise. Lowe won easily the previous two elections, 2010 was a lot closer. Lowe is also going to be 72 years old this year, he should be forced to retire.

[The Goon]

Oops! Councillor Lowe forgot about a sponsored trip of his own three years ago.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Go...571/story.html

[Bigtime]

I got a kick out of reading that last night. Let the back-pedaling begin.

[shermanator]

From the article:

"They're night and day difference," Lowe said of his trip and Nenshi's airfare. "The government of China does not do business directly with the City of Calgary.

"We were there representing Calgary. It's completely the other way around - (it) was almost like they were paying us to come and lobby them."

Lowe said he and the mayor of Banff worked "tirelessly" while they were in China lobbying government officials to approve Canada as a destination.

Right.....because Nenshi has just been kicking back and relaxing while in Toronto this whole time....

[Frequitude]

I ask again. What the hell are council members doing calling the mayor out anyways?!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

I ask again. What the hell are council members doing calling the mayor out anyways?!

Honest question: what do you mean? Why shouldn't members of council be calling out the mayor and vice-versa? Isn't that one of the checks and balances built into the system?

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Right.....because Nenshi has just been kicking back and relaxing while in Toronto this whole time....

I actually hope he keeps spouting off about this nonsense, it will be quite the train wreck if he does. He'll be the next Oscar Fech in no time!

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Aegypticus

All this over $721? If someone's idea of buttering me up is flying me coach to Toronto...

No kidding. It's not like he flew in Tony Stark's private jet, or flew on Austin Powers 747 there.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Slava

Honest question: what do you mean? Why shouldn't members of council be calling out the mayor and vice-versa? Isn't that one of the checks and balances built into the system?

You seriously think a $721 plane ticket meets the checks & balances threshold for going to the media?