Okay, well I thought you were referring to the federal Liberals, but with regards to Notley I think she's actually playing it right, I'm just not willing to give her any credit for doing it intentionally because I think it's more incompetence than strategy. Going all Brad Wall on this is exactly what you don't want to do. It might play well with Albertans and Saskatchewanites, but take a pulse of the rest of Canada and it's not moving the needle. If anything it's creating more division and intransigence on the issue.
Like it or not Alberta is bargaining from a position of weakness. Now, I don't know what political/negotiation strategies you're familiar, but most of the ones I'm familiar with would not advise antagonizing the people in the stronger position at the bargaining table. If Notley were to go all Brad Wall, get on her soapbox and basically antagonize the other provinces, all it would likely do would further damage the cause. The last thing Alberta wants is for more sentiment to go against pipelines to the point where they become an issue that none of the federal parties want to touch because it's going to cost them seats in every province but the prairies.
Again, I get that people are hurting, but with regards to Trudeau you can't seriously expect the guy to risk his chances for re-election to appease one province. I mean it'd be nice if politicians were more principled than opportunistic but that's just not the reality of the situation. Political parties and politicians in this country aren't in the business of running the country, they're in the business of getting elected. If the crowd here is generally against idealism when it comes to policies, then it absolutely shouldn't expect it in politics.
So yeah, the delay is absolutely a move to rebuild political capital surrounding the issue. Will it work? Who knows, but we do know that the approach the federal and provincial Conservatives took for the past 10 years definitely wasn't working, so an alternative was really the only legitimate option.
Not to pick on your posts, but I tend to enjoy debating you Rube.
I do disagree with you here. It just seems that Alberta is being attacked, the other provinces aren't just saying no and putting up a veneer of no negotiation, but they're basically slapping this province around or drive bying it at the same time.
That's why I don't believe that we can play nice, or educate the people because its not going to work at a provincial level.
If Trudeau is playing that game I certainly hope that he is a one term Prime Minister. Even the evil anti-eastern Harper put a lot of money into Ontario and Quebec and during the last crisis bailed out the auto industry. He certainly didn't want to, but it was done because its the right thing to do.
I want to be frank, Trudeau has done little to nothing except come out here to do a there there, or possibly privately gloat over the misery that is happening here. The 700 million was already ear marked by Harper. the 250 million is pretty much an automatic thing. He's done nothing innovated, and basically he's stopped talking about it.
Now I'm not asking for a bailout from young Prime Minister dopey, I'm asking for two actual verbal commitments.
1) Put a deadline on the review of the EE, state that all studies and consultations must be complete within two years. We know that the environmental Groups key strategy is to load up the docket and delay it forever. State that no groups supported by foreign funds will be allowed in. Set a list of who can sit in front of the committee and what other info is required and when it must be committed.
2) State boldly that if the NEB reviews and approves that the Prime Minister and liberal party will unequivocally support the construction of the pipeline.
3) and this one is immediate, is to public ally remind Quebec that they don't understand the constitution, and also that the NEB review takes Quebec's environmental policies into account, and we don't need another bulky parallel review that is meaningless.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
We should just build a mad max 2 style of fuel convoy, where we get a bunch of semi's and escort them with battered muscle cars driven by warriors in black painted hockey gear while carrying spears.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
We should just build a mad max 2 style of fuel convoy, where we get a bunch of semi's and escort them with battered muscle cars driven by warriors in black painted hockey gear while carrying spears.
Let me start by saying I am not an NDP supporter, nor did I vote for the NDP. However, I think what rubecube is saying is bang on. What do we want to get out of this? The Alberta energy industry needs a pipeline built to tidal water and the easiest path at the moment is for EE to get built (and a pipeline to the west coast but that's another discussion). There is no way that the pipeline will be approved any time soon if Alberta gets into a political pissing contest with Ontario and especially Quebec. Now is not the time to flash machismo, whip out our collective lady balls and slap around Quebec politicians with our collective western righteous indignation.
The only way to get this built is to play the longer game. If we allow our voices to be combative the east will dig deeper into their trenches and we'll lose this fight. This shouldn't be about standing on principles and giving Quebec a piece of our mind and showing them that we won't be pushed around. Frankly, that's an immature and ineffective strategy and a sure path to failure. Brad Wall's comments help to paint him as some sort of western hero standing up to the big, bad easties but really he's just politicking as much as Corderre or any of the other corrupt politicians in Quebec.
To succeed we need to be smart and not be guided by our collective emotions which are prayed on by certain segments of the provincial political establishment. Frankly, a lot of the sentiments I hear about how Notley is handling this reminds me of some Trump supporters: "strong leadership", "we'll show them", "we won't bend over for them", etc. Just not a lot of substance or strategic thinking involved. I'm not saying Notley's right but she's not in a position of strength to turn this into a fight. We'll lose that fight.
You're creating a bit of a false dichotomy. The argument against turning it into a battle or war is well and good. Totally understandable. But that is not the only option she has for standing up for her province and her constituents. The only thing she is proving with her consistently timid kowtowing is that she is easily manipulated and cowed. The only thing that is going to result in are ever greater roadblocks and demands.
In the case of Quebec's latest whining, Notley could have stood up and simply said that she had the fullest confidence that the Energy East Pipeline would satisfy all relevant environmental regulations. That would have both been a support for the local project and a promise that the environmental aspect would be addressed without bowing to Quebec's attempt to usurp federal domain.
Instead, she chose to bow down and kiss Quebec's feet - and possibly did so on orders from her federal NDP superiors - who unquestionably want to regain dominance in Quebec.
Not to pick on your posts, but I tend to enjoy debating you Rube.
I do disagree with you here. It just seems that Alberta is being attacked, the other provinces aren't just saying no and putting up a veneer of no negotiation, but they're basically slapping this province around or drive bying it at the same time.
That's why I don't believe that we can play nice, or educate the people because its not going to work at a provincial level.
Well like I said, when you're dealing from a position of weakness, you kind of have to play nice. I see absolutely zero positive outcomes from going nuclear on the topic. Could Notley being a little more? Probably, but if she went too hard in the opposite direction, things would be much worse.
I think you and others are also seeing this as an anti-Alberta thing when it really isn't. These are people who legitimately put the environment before the economy, which I know is hard to wrap your head around in a province that's been so bullish about its economy, but the attitude in BC is different (and yes hypocritical at times). You have people here who are basically voting against their own interests when it comes to LNG because of environmental concerns. We can debate whether those concerns are valid or not, but insisting that it's an anti-Alberta bias (at least in BC) just doesn't reflect reality.
I also don't think BC has asked for any additional compensation, have they? Clark hasn't been vocal supporter of the pipelines, but she's hardly been standing in the way either. If she is, all she's doing is echoing the concerns of her constituents, and if you look at it from a BC perspective that makes sense. We're assuming almost all of the environmental risk when it comes to Northern Gateway and Kinder Morgan and receiving almost nothing in economic benefits beyond the original build, and I imagine a good portion of the initial build will be contracted to Albertan or American companies.
It's not like BC receives equalization payments either, so it's hard to pull the old "Alberta supports your province" card. You could play the "well we're all Canadians, so it's good for Canada" card but it rings kind of hollow after decades of Albertans pissing and moaning about equalization payments and whatnot.
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If Trudeau is playing that game I certainly hope that he is a one term Prime Minister. Even the evil anti-eastern Harper put a lot of money into Ontario and Quebec and during the last crisis bailed out the auto industry. He certainly didn't want to, but it was done because its the right thing to do.
Oh come on. You can't actually believe this. You're telling me that the most Machiavellian PM we've had in recent memory wasn't playing politics when he made that call? You think Harper would have had any hope of a reelection if he had let the auto industry fail, especially when he was sitting with a minority government? The opposition would have brought him down in a heartbeat and he would've gotten killed in the election. And really, if the dude was so concerned with doing the right thing instead of playing politics, he wouldn't have done stuff like going after safe injection sites.
I want to be frank, Trudeau has done little to nothing except come out here to do a there there, or possibly privately gloat over the misery that is happening here. The 700 million was already ear marked by Harper. the 250 million is pretty much an automatic thing. He's done nothing innovated, and basically he's stopped talking about it.
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1) Put a deadline on the review of the EE, state that all studies and consultations must be complete within two years. We know that the environmental Groups key strategy is to load up the docket and delay it forever. State that no groups supported by foreign funds will be allowed in. Set a list of who can sit in front of the committee and what other info is required and when it must be committed.
Has TC even submitted their EE proposal to the NEB for review yet? I don't know that setting a deadline is the politically prudent think to do. I'd also rather the studies be done accurately than quickly.
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2) State boldly that if the NEB reviews and approves that the Prime Minister and liberal party will unequivocally support the construction of the pipeline.
He's already said the cabinet will review it, and again it's for political capital. People don't trust the NEB process and he's committed to overhauling but has said that it's going to take time and that cabinet review is interim solution. Reversing course on that now would be an incredibly stupid move.
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3) and this one is immediate, is to public ally remind Quebec that they don't understand the constitution, and also that the NEB review takes Quebec's environmental policies into account, and we don't need another bulky parallel review that is meaningless.
But Quebec is abiding by the same rules handed down by the BC Courts, so until that ruling us overturned, you can't say it's unconstitutional, and in fact it's likely that local aboriginal groups in Quebec would use that ruling to hold things up, so antagonizing Quebec on this front is again a poor move politically.
We should just build a mad max 2 style of fuel convoy, where we get a bunch of semi's and escort them with battered muscle cars driven by warriors in black painted hockey gear while carrying spears.
Well I do need a new job, can I apply to be a spear carrier? I'll need the uniform of course.
It's quite funny that Quebec is making a stink about this pipeline while they quietly try and build a concrete plant that is able to bypass all environmental legislation.
McInnis Cement plant in Gaspé proceeds without environmental hearing
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The Quebec government is taking legislative action to ensure that a $1.1-billion cement plant being built in the Gaspé region of Quebec doesn't become the subject of public hearings on its environmental impact.
Economy Minister Jacques Daoust tabled a bill Thursday that would allow the McInnis Cement project in Port-Daniel-Gascons, Que., to proceed without such hearings — a move the governing Liberals hope will neutralize legal challenges by project opponents.
In the case of Quebec's latest whining, Notley could have stood up and simply said that she had the fullest confidence that the Energy East Pipeline would satisfy all relevant environmental regulations. That would have both been a support for the local project and a promise that the environmental aspect would be addressed without bowing to Quebec's attempt to usurp federal domain.
That would be the absolute worst thing you say for a project that hasn't completed it's NEB assessment.
On March 2, 2016, a Resignation Committee of the Benchers of the Law Society of Alberta granted the application of Ezra Levant to resign effective immediately. At the time of his resignation, Mr. Levant was an inactive member of the Law Society of Alberta and resided in Ontario.
At the time of his application, Mr. Levant was facing discipline proceedings in relation to two matters. It was alleged that he was discourteous or disrespectful to a Commissioner or Tribunal Chair of the Alberta Human Rights Commission and that he made public comments regarding the Alberta Human Rights Commission that were inappropriate and unbecoming.
The Resignation Committee determined it was in the best interests of the public to permit Mr. Levant to resign under Section 32 of the Legal Profession Act given that:
1. Mr. Levant signed a Statement of Facts in which he admitted facts that would have supported these allegations, but did not admit that this was conduct deserving of sanction.
2. Mr. Levant undertook to not apply for readmission to the Law Society of Alberta for five years and would only do so if he intended to practise law actively and on a full-time basis.
3. In the event that Mr. Levant applies to be relieved of this undertaking, costs of $5,264.70 will have to be paid.
Mr. Levant is therefore no longer a member of the Law Society of Alberta effective March 2, 2016.
It was alleged that he was discourteous or disrespectful to a Commissioner or Tribunal Chair of the Alberta Human Rights Commission and that he made public comments regarding the Alberta Human Rights Commission that were inappropriate and unbecoming.
Please ..... that speech was epic and he was right.
I also don't think BC has asked for any additional compensation, have they? Clark hasn't been vocal supporter of the pipelines, but she's hardly been standing in the way either.
Condition #5 that they gave Enbridge was that BC does not get their fair share. The environmental risk is Canada's, not BC's. The export terminal would've been completely within BC jurisdiction, and they would have gotten every bit of economic benefit from that.
Of course she's echoing the concerns of her constituents - but the concerns are unfounded.
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Has TC even submitted their EE proposal to the NEB for review yet? I don't know that setting a deadline is the politically prudent think to do. I'd also rather the studies be done accurately than quickly.
Yes, TC first submitted an application to the NEB in 2014. They submitted a revised application to the NEB in November after thousands of hours of public consultation, which resulted in hundreds of changes. Concerns about Beluga whales, for example, meant that the extra export terminal that TC planned in Quebec was removed from the design.
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He's already said the cabinet will review it, and again it's for political capital. People don't trust the NEB process and he's committed to overhauling but has said that it's going to take time and that cabinet review is interim solution. Reversing course on that now would be an incredibly stupid move.
Why isn't the NEB process trusted? I've worked with the NEB. They're tough. They're thorough. NEB doesn't really tell you want to do, they want you to prove to them that you're doing the right thing - which is a much higher bar, especially when the NEB is filled to the brim with technical experts with decades of experience in pipelining.
I feel like the "issue" for the general public is that the NEB is collaborative. They impose conditions and action plans on companies. Once companies fulfill those conditions and action plans, the NEB gives them the go-ahead.
Environmental groups expect the NEB to just say "NO" with no recourse or any explanation. As an impartial government entity, they wouldn't do that. Even the US State Department didn't do that to TC for KXL - they issued a whole bunch of conditions, which were then complied with, in order to get the State Department's approval. Only a presidential veto stopped the entire process, which has literally never happened before in history (thus the lawsuit).
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But Quebec is abiding by the same rules handed down by the BC Courts, so until that ruling us overturned, you can't say it's unconstitutional, and in fact it's likely that local aboriginal groups in Quebec would use that ruling to hold things up, so antagonizing Quebec on this front is again a poor move politically.
TC is already abiding by the Quebec injunction. BAPE hearings start next week. While I would prefer Notley to have said something, TC is saying and doing all the right things regardless of the constitutionality of the situation. Time will tell whether that matters one bit.
Please ..... that speech was epic and he was right.
Particularly funny was the bureaucrat on the left assuming the crossed-arms pose, once he compared the HRC process to the Saudi judicial system (or whatever).
Just dropping in to see if CaptainCrunch was going to be singing NDP praises today! They have basically done what you have been calling for.
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Alberta's energy minister is putting the B.C. government on notice — its next-door neighbour won't be in the market for more hydro-electricity until Alberta has an easier time getting its petroleum products to market
In a written statement Friday, Marg McCuaig-Boyd says while Alberta would consider increased connectivity with B.C. as the province looks to boost its use of cleaner power, the interests of Alberta's economy will come first.
"We won't be buying more power if we can't get our resources to market," she said
Good credit due. Its what she's supposed to do, tell BC to cram it. Why it takes her so long to do anything is beyond me. This should have been step one when Clarke started mouthing off.
Now block their trucks from transporting goods across Alberta unless they pay a tariff.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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Not usually the biggest fan of O'Leary, and I don't necessarily agree with his suggestions, but I like the passion.
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Pylon on the Edmonton Oilers:
"I am actually more excited for the Oilers game tomorrow than the Flames game. I am praying for multiple jersey tosses. The Oilers are my new favourite team for all the wrong reasons. I hate them so much I love them."
Looking at his points:
1) I'm not sure that would do a whole lot, but OK.
2)In 2015 We collected about $2.7 Billion. Is cutting that in half going to be that big an incentive, once divided up between all companies?
3)Sounds decent enough
4)I think that mostly happens anyway. From what I understand most royalties aren't paid for a few years, especially the oilsands.
5)oh, wait. That's it.
Frankly it sounds like he isn't all that well educated on the current system, and his ideas are mediocre at best. Basically reduce industry costs. That's still not going to boost the price of oil to make a difference. I actually expected a lot more out of him. Oh, and all his suggestions would further decimate provincial coffers. I didn't see him bring up a PST...maybe his next letter will be about sticking it to the unions...
No, the absolute worst thing is what she actually did say.
What I suggested is merely a token statement in support of her constituents. And that is proving to be beyond her ability.
Saying that Alberta's Government believes that Energy East pipeline would satisfy all environment conditions before the completion would damage our credibility, and it will make it appear that the Alberta Government is biased towards energy companies.
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