03-05-2018, 02:19 PM
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#61
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother
I am sorry to hear this.
Your son's coach is a ####ing moron.
I am against benching kids at any level.
####ing idiot.
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Is this true even at Midget AAA? I would also assume they use certain players in different situations, like if you're down a goal or two you start double shifting your best players. I don't think I see a problem with that in high level bantam and midget.
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03-05-2018, 02:32 PM
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#62
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corporatejay
Is this true even at Midget AAA? I would also assume they use certain players in different situations, like if you're down a goal or two you start double shifting your best players. I don't think I see a problem with that in high level bantam and midget.
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To be clear I have not coached at AAA, Midget or Bantam, but I have had a very good friend coach at that level, in short his take is "If they are good enough to make this team they are good enough to play in every situation".
I completely agree with his sentiment. Also, to me it smacks of lazy coaching.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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03-05-2018, 02:43 PM
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#63
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Sutton
Up 2-0 in second round against NW Flames, hopefully wrap it up back here in Lethbridge tomorrow night.
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Boo.
Go Flames. Closest thing to a 'home' team for me in Boys MAAA and we've played with several of the kids on this team way way back.
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03-05-2018, 02:46 PM
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#64
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Sutton
Up 2-0 in second round against NW Flames, hopefully wrap it up back here in Lethbridge tomorrow night.
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That double overtime game was crucial, really giving momentum to Lethbridge
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03-05-2018, 02:48 PM
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#65
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
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As for benching, it doesn’t occur often even at the Midget AAA level. You will play your best players if the game is close and your near the end but “benching” only occurs if the player is having a really bad game, or is misbehaving. This would only really occur at the quadrant level so if benching is occurring in the community level something seems a little off
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03-05-2018, 02:59 PM
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#66
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sunnyvale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother
I am sorry to hear this.
Your son's coach is a ####ing moron.
I am against benching kids at any level.
####ing idiot.
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There are various reasons a kid could be benched and different interpratiions of benching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by corporatejay
Is this true even at Midget AAA? I would also assume they use certain players in different situations, like if you're down a goal or two you start double shifting your best players. I don't think I see a problem with that in high level bantam and midget.
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There are various reasons a kid could be benched and different interprations of "benching". Missing a shift or two late in the game is not being "benched" IMO. The fact that two or three kids have a better chance of preserving the win or scoring a goal to force another game really gives all the players more ice in the long run should they be successful and advance to the next round.
Some kids buy in and some kids don't, some kids really care more about the game and want to be out there while others don't, some kids take a lot more penalties then others, which messes all ice times. I agree that ice time should be equal given equal circumstances but when you have kids who are very passionate about the game and others who are only there because their parents dropped them off that day...
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The only thing better then a glass of beer is tea with Ms McGill
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03-05-2018, 03:02 PM
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#67
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Sutton
There are various reasons a kid could be benched and different interpratiions of benching.
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Yes there are, but to my mind they are for reasons mentioned by CC earlier, poor sportsmanship, dangerous play, etc.
Quote:
There are various reasons a kid could be benched and different interprations of "benching". Missing a shift or two late in the game is not being "benched" IMO. The fact that two or three kids have a better chance of preserving the win or scoring a goal to force another game really gives all the players more ice in the long run should they be successful and advance to the next round.
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If those kids are such difference makers why not double shift them all game? Why not shorten the bench at the end of the period when the game is zero zero.
Quote:
Some kids buy in and some kids don't, some kids really care more about the game and want to be out there while others don't, some kids take a lot more penalties then others, which messes all ice times. I agree that ice time should be equal given equal circumstances but when you have kids who are very passionate about the game and others who are only there because their parents dropped them off that day...
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That is bottom end teams, not AAA. Some kids take away different things from sport beside the playing of the game.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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03-05-2018, 03:04 PM
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#68
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother
Yes there are, but to my mind they are for reasons mentioned by CC earlier, poor sportsmanship, dangerous play, etc.
If those kids are such difference makers why not double shift them all game? Why not shorten the bench at the end of the period when the game is zero zero.
That is bottom end teams, not AAA. Some kids take away different things from sport beside the playing of the game.
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I believe there are some rules associations need to follow for ice time percentages and at the higher end levels many players have different roles so it’s very to common to play fairly equally for the first 50 Minutes then maybe shorten the bench in the last 10
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03-05-2018, 03:07 PM
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#69
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sunnyvale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savardandjokinen
That double overtime game was crucial, really giving momentum to Lethbridge
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Pretty sure finishing first in the league ensured they would have the momentum heading into play offs...
__________________
The only thing better then a glass of beer is tea with Ms McGill
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03-05-2018, 03:10 PM
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#70
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Sutton
Pretty sure finishing first in the league ensured they would have the momentum heading into play offs...
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Fair enough however there can be momentum shifts in the playoffs and there series are much different than a 35 game schedule.
I think most people expect Lethbridge to go very far if not win it all
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03-05-2018, 03:11 PM
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#71
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sunnyvale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother
That is bottom end teams, not AAA. Some kids take away different things from sport beside the playing of the game.
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Agreed, I shouldn't have quoted the AAA comment. I belive the discussion up till that point though was reffering to lower levels of hockey.
__________________
The only thing better then a glass of beer is tea with Ms McGill
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03-05-2018, 03:21 PM
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#72
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sunnyvale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savardandjokinen
Fair enough however there can be momentum shifts in the playoffs and there series are much different than a 35 game schedule.
I think most people expect Lethbridge to go very far if not win it all
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Also a good case study for equal ice time, or lack their of. One or two shifts per period is not rare for some of the kids on the (Lethbridge) team....
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The only thing better then a glass of beer is tea with Ms McGill
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03-05-2018, 03:28 PM
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#73
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Norm!
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Its funny reading this thread, because of where I coach. I know its football, but there is a mandate that's arrived at by the association and the parents that this is program that wins.
There are development leagues, but we're supposed to get the higher level of players that are developing for midget and high school ball and beyond.
And I want to take a step back, I know I talk about coaches that sometimes take the game too seriously but are win obsessed, but the question that has to be asked is what are the expectations put on a coach by an association and by the parents?
Personally I think that a youth coaches mandate should be pretty simple
1) Are you providing a safe experience and environment for the players
2) Can the play look back on his experience positively
3) As a coach are you taking poor players and making them better players, better players and making them good players, and good players and making them game changers
If your kid is benched for a game you have to talk to the coach, its that simple.
You have to understand
1) is this a fair play league?
2) Is this team concerned with development? Winning or both?
3) Why was my son of daughter benched?
4) what as a coach and as a parent need to do?
I can say that over the last couple of years ago, I've gotten every player off of the bench and into the game. Why? Because its fracking cool man.
The only reason why I won't put a player out, is if he's taken a blow to the head during the game, I won't take that chance, or if he's a danger to himself (Doesn't understand his role, doesn't have awareness for whatever reason) or to others (Playing cheap).
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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03-05-2018, 03:45 PM
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#74
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Franchise Player
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I have two experiences playing high level sports at a young age.
the first was in hockey, I was benched in overtime of the provincial championship, i bitched and bitched until I was put on, I ultimately scored the game winning goal, felt vindicated.
the second was football provincial championship. I played O-line and I was getting beat like a rented mule. Second half the coach put in our best players on both sides of the ball. We won a close game solidifying an undefeated season.
This was the same year, Both were "A" level.
nevertheless, I don't hold hard feelings in either case, we won in both cases and that's what really matters. 25 years later I still look back fondly on those memories, especially the football one.
Bottom line is, shortening your bench in lower level hockey is ridiculous but starting in Atom, the top tier teams can and should shorten their bench in tight situations. The smartest way to deal with it is have your lesser skilled guys kill penalties earlier in the game or something and of course, winning cures what ails you.
Anything that isn't Atom 1, PeeWee 1/2 or Quadrant hockey should be largely equal,
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03-05-2018, 04:16 PM
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#75
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corporatejay
I have two experiences playing high level sports at a young age.
the first was in hockey, I was benched in overtime of the provincial championship, i bitched and bitched until I was put on, I ultimately scored the game winning goal, felt vindicated.
the second was football provincial championship. I played O-line and I was getting beat like a rented mule. Second half the coach put in our best players on both sides of the ball. We won a close game solidifying an undefeated season.
This was the same year, Both were "A" level.
nevertheless, I don't hold hard feelings in either case, we won in both cases and that's what really matters. 25 years later I still look back fondly on those memories, especially the football one.
Bottom line is, shortening your bench in lower level hockey is ridiculous but starting in Atom, the top tier teams can and should shorten their bench in tight situations. The smartest way to deal with it is have your lesser skilled guys kill penalties earlier in the game or something and of course, winning cures what ails you.
Anything that isn't Atom 1, PeeWee 1/2 or Quadrant hockey should be largely equal,
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Atom is 9 & 10 year old's give me a break ... There is no way benches should be shortened and kids sat at that level outside of discipline ... And yes I've been there my son played three years of quadrant hockey including AAA midget last year and I've played and coached both college and professional baseball - and I'm a level four NCCP instructor ... I'll say it again - There is no way benches should be shortened and kids sat at that level outside of discipline.
I'll all but guarantee your kids and his/her teammates will not make the NHL so start holding your coaches accountable - if they are good enough to be there they are good enough to play...
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03-05-2018, 10:03 PM
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#76
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
Unless your kid did something stupid diciplline wise, was injured, or is a danger to himself or others when he steps on the ice, there's no way he should be benched.
Especially in community hockey.
It goes back to what I've said in the coaching thread, there are way too many coaches out there that take these sports way too seriously, and that somehow wins and losses at a youth level matter.
I would hope that you ask the coach some questions about benching your kid, and if its anything but the above reasons that you let him have it in the nicest way possible.
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Amen. Parents too of course.
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03-06-2018, 07:04 AM
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#77
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Franchise Player
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while i get the sentiment, this would mean that in theory everyone on this AAA team gets equal ice time because they are all good enough to play at this level.
seems stunning to me that if you were in some situation where your season is on the brink and you need a goal to get to tie and extend, that you are going to roll four lines if you have three forwards who each have 50+ points compared to the defensive specialist who perhaps has 7 points thru 60 games.
I like Hollywood endings as much as the next guy, but as a parent I'd be startching my head over that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother
To be clear I have not coached at AAA, Midget or Bantam, but I have had a very good friend coach at that level, in short his take is "If they are good enough to make this team they are good enough to play in every situation".
I completely agree with his sentiment. Also, to me it smacks of lazy coaching.
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If I do not come back avenge my death
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03-06-2018, 09:06 AM
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#78
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northendzone
while i get the sentiment, this would mean that in theory everyone on this AAA team gets equal ice time because they are all good enough to play at this level.
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In my experience I have seen ice time policy as follows. Both Community and Elite levels have what they call 'Fair play' but it is ususlly defined differently:
Community - most LMHA's have a stated policy of equal ice time for everyone meaning just that. Lines are supposed to roll regardless of the situation. All players will be given equal ice time.
Elite hockey - their definition of fair play is that all players will have the opportunity to earn equal ice time.
Difference being in community everyone is supposed to get equal ice, in elite everyone will have the opportunity to earn equal ice.
Most LMHA's will have this somewhere in their published policies.
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03-06-2018, 09:47 AM
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#79
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Franchise Player
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to me in quad hockey, nothing should be given - if you want more ice time, practice better and harder and then play better and harder.
if the player is unhappy, he needs to have a conversation with the coach - if there is still not clarity, then the player, parent, coach and manager need to have a conversation to ensure the message is clear.
to me every team has a "pecking order", there are always guys ion every team who are at the top and others who are at the bottom.
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If I do not come back avenge my death
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03-06-2018, 10:48 AM
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#80
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northendzone
to me in quad hockey, nothing should be given - if you want more ice time, practice better and harder and then play better and harder.
if the player is unhappy, he needs to have a conversation with the coach - if there is still not clarity, then the player, parent, coach and manager need to have a conversation to ensure the message is clear.
to me every team has a "pecking order", there are always guys ion every team who are at the top and others who are at the bottom.
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I don't know if I agree with you.
Wiat I agree about working harder, standing out and progressing. However we all know getting a young player to approach a coach is more of a two way street, I've learned that coaching Bantam.
for a lot of young players that skill set of approaching an adult like a coach is a huge hill to climb. Instead a lot of young players will actually withdraw from the process.
As a coach you have to be able to read your players and create trust so that a player is willing to approach you with questions or problems, or that you know when to approach a player and talk to them and give them one on one coaching.
I was at a coaching seminar the other day, and I was joking with another coach about our experiences growing up, when the only time a coach would talk to you would be to rip your face off, show it to you and then sew it on upside down. And even the act of saying "Good morning" or "Hi" to a coach was an exercise in finding a hiding place to dive into if it went wrong.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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