Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I think you are talking about the Draisaitl that was a RFA and signed for 8.25 million a year after a year where he averaged 0.94 PPG.

Johnny is a UFA coming off a season where he averaged 1.40 PPG. In Draisaitl’s contract year he scored at about 67% the rate Johnny did in his contract year, so ya having Draisaitl sign for about 75% of Johnny’s rate makes sense. I agree with you.

RFA status really doesn't matter any more as far as compensation goes. But I'll agree with you on the production.

But so, OK, let's do Kucherov. 2018 scores 100 points and signs for 9.5x8 (a year out). Or Barkov: Scores at a rate of 95 points every year while being an elite two way centre, signs for 10M in 2021. Is Johnny way better than him?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What if the list is Edmonton, Tampa Bay, Colorado, Buffalo and Toronto.

So, that would be fine, if that's the way his client would have been happy to be represented. It would still have given the team certainty about conditions to work within.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Holding out hope that he's suddenly going to change his tune and sign is a fools errand at this point. With all the media around this something would be out there by now that there are at least serious and meaningful discussions ongoing between both parties.

Bradkay, we've offered 11x8 and you're still hemming and hawing. We're up against the deadline here Johnny. 12x8.

Johnny: Oh, Brad. I've been messing with you. Your first offer was more than generous. I want to win here so I'll take less so you can build a strong team around me. 8x8

No, I am not drunk.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Holding out hope that he's suddenly going to change his tune and sign is a fools errand at this point. With all the media around this something would be out there by now that there are at least serious and meaningful discussions ongoing between both parties.

Honestly, if Treliving is still beating this drum and hasn't assessed the situation to be hopeless it would be equally as inexcusable from a management perspective.

I don't think it has anything to do with changing his tune - it was always going to come down to the final hours.

Landeskog signed 34 minutes before his deadline last year.

Nylander signed a couple of hours before he'd have to sit out the season in 2019.

This is how a player maximizes their value if they want to stay.

[The Yen Man]

Johnny may or may not sign, but one thing I'm pretty certain on. The "I told you so" crowd on either side is going to be insufferable on CP for awhile after, regardless of if he stays or goes.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Holding out hope that he's suddenly going to change his tune and sign is a fools errand at this point. With all the media around this something would be out there by now that there are at least serious and meaningful discussions ongoing between both parties.

Honestly, if Treliving is still beating this drum and hasn't assessed the situation to be hopeless it would be equally as inexcusable from a management perspective.

Oh please. Treliving should just give up because his 115 point superstar hasn’t made up his mind yet? Pushing hard to sign him until it’s 100% done is inexcusable?

I’m really glad our management doesn’t have your mindset. Like, really really glad.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Why do people think a rebuild is the answer? It usually isn't.

So that we can spend several years building back up to contender status and get the best line in hockey again, then let them all walk again when they don't want to keep playing in Calgary!

C'MON, YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS BY NOW, THE PAIN HURTS SO GOOD AT THIS POINT

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

What does Gaudreau get in a trade last offseason?

He was coming off two seasons where he had a .85 PPG and there were alot of questions about his ability to perform in the playoffs.

Plus the whole league was in a cap crunch, the league was playing in a bubble, and there was a lot of uncertainty due to COVID.

You weren't dealing the 115 point superstar that you got this past season, his stock was pretty low.

My guess is the offers on the able were probably something like a 1st + Prospect + Cap Dump to offset salaries.

It's also what made an extension last summer hard. Flames wanted to lock in low, but in the end it sounds like Gaudreau made the decision to walk away from the offer and bet on himself.

I think you could make the case that keeping Gaudreau and trying to go on one last run was actually the right call, because at least it gave the Flames a decent season and the chance to keep negotiating to potentially keep him.

If Gaudreau was traded last offseason there is not even a chance he's back here.

If Gaudreau was traded for a 1st and a prospect last offseason, and then went on to have a 115 point season somewhere else then Nik and you would just be complaining about how Gaudreau was dealt for peanuts and how they were stupid not to keep him to try to re-sign him. There is no winning.

The question the Flames organization need to ask themselves is how well they know their own players. Gaudreau has played here for over 600 games, over 8 full NHL seasons. They have watched very practice, monitored his conditioning, who knows how many closed door meetings.

Should this one season have changed their assessment of his value so dramatically?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by nik-

Yeah, you're gonna have to elaborate on that one.

This is a colossal asset management blunder. He gambled and lost.

How many superstars re-up before the end of their deal. Why wouldn’t Gaudreau wait to ensure he gets market value?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Just read the thread. Numerous posters have already pointed out precisely why the options for both signing or moving Gaudreau last summer were almost non-existent. The right decision was always to negotiate in good faith in hopes of making a deal.

There was the time and willingness by Gaudreau's camp to talk extension last summer - it was the Flames who weren't playing ball for what you have to assume was a lack of belief in the player. And for what? Maybe that deal was 8x8 instead of 10x8 after the season he just had? Hardly worth the gamble when your GM is constantly overpaying crummy UFA players to begin with.

Obviously you aren't trading him in season last year with the team a serious contender, but this is a classic reminder of why you take care of your business with your best players well ahead of UFA.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Buff

No, I am not drunk.

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Holding out hope that he's suddenly going to change his tune and sign is a fools errand at this point. With all the media around this something would be out there by now that there are at least serious and meaningful discussions ongoing between both parties.

Honestly, if Treliving is still beating this drum and hasn't assessed the situation to be hopeless it would be equally as inexcusable from a management perspective.

Except that’s not what anyone is doing. Nobody is “holding out hope that he’s suddenly going to change his mind”. All parties involved are well aware that the pressure point is this evening at 10:00pm Calgary time. Gaudreau doesn’t need to change his mind to sign a contract prior to this deadline. He and his agent only need to get closer to that deadline to assess how desperate the flames really are. Ie, will the flames make a last ditch increase?

On the other side, the Flames will see closer to 10:00 weather Johnny’s camp is really prepared to lose the 8th year and test free agency. It’s all a big game of chicken and nobody should be surprised that this thing is going down to the wire. Deals get made when we get close to these types of deadlines.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

RFA status really doesn't matter any more as far as compensation goes. But I'll agree with you on the production.

But so, OK, let's do Kucherov. 2018 scores 100 points and signs for 9.5x8 (a year out)

Sounds good. Kucherov averaged 89% of what Johnny scored the year that he signed his contract, so let’s give Johnny an extra million (pretend taxes are the same) and say that 10.5 million is the number. Of course Kucherov signed as a RFA as well, so less leverage again than a UFA. 10.5 is still not 9.5. Any other ones you want to do?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Yeah, Gross could say no in the understanding that no further offers would be coming for his client, and Treliving could have started making plans, going into the draft ready to make moves. Five teams is also better than nothing.

Treliving may talk in the media about where they are putting their calories, but their is no reason to believe they haven't been working on plans B through Z. There was nothing stopping them from making moves at the draft, they just had to consider the implications of them with/without Gaudreau, and I suppose how they might impact negotiations.

Originally Posted by Lonestar

10-4 thanks for the info, although I still think there's some shenanigans that take place.

Salary breakdowns by year, NMC/NTC, signing bonuses. It seems like a lot to iron out in minutes. I have no inside knowledge, just parroting what guys in the business have alluded to and it makes sense.

Which are why the big contracts take a bit longer.

For middling guys it's a game of musical chairs...you don't to be standing when the music stops and the offers dry up.

I'm sure tampering conversations happen with broad stroke numbers, I just don't think they get down to nuts and bolts until the bell rings.

[mile]

I don't think any insiders or reporters know what is going on behind closed doors today

Pretty bad wording by Wes

At least no one has said that Johnny is going to market like some of the other UFAs

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Am I saying Gaudreau will never win a cup? No. Am I saying the playoff failure was all his fault? No. I'm saying we've seen the ceiling of this team with him as its best player.

How can you say that though? If Johnny re-signs, and Tkachuk is back and they lock in Mangiapane, this is still a very good team.

Yes, it's the same team that disappointed so bloody much in Round 2, but does that automatically mean it's bound to happen again? Why can't the ceiling be higher? Why can't they learn things from what they did wrong?

If 13/19/88 are back, the makeup of the bottom six will be different next year, but different isn't bad. Different can surprise, different can be good. Different could mean a higher ceiling for the overall team and could push them to the next step.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

There was the time and willingness by Gaudreau's camp to talk extension last summer - it was the Flames who weren't playing ball for what you have to assume was a lack of belief in the player. And for what? Maybe that deal was 8x8 instead of 10x8 after the season he just had? Hardly worth the gamble when your GM is constantly overpaying crummy UFA players to begin with.

Obviously you aren't trading him in season last year with the team a serious contender, but this is a classic reminder of why you take care of your business with your best players well ahead of UFA.

What makes you think he would want to discuss a deal last year knowing he could (and did) light it up the following year and get more $$$??

That's not how this works.

[manwiches]

I would think the players made a big pitch to Johnny at Money's wedding. Time (8 hrs) will tell, but I think those close to him rooting for him to play with Calgary again, have done their part. It's up to him decide if he wants money, or closer to home. I wouldn't fault him either way.

That being said, I mentioned before, I moved away for far less, with a kid on the way, and I couldn't be happier during that time. He's got the money to get family to see him, and also cement a legacy in Calgary. Just my two cents, and how I'd lean

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

There was the time and willingness by Gaudreau's camp to talk extension last summer - it was the Flames who weren't playing ball for what you have to assume was a lack of belief in the player. And for what? Maybe that deal was 8x8 instead of 10x8 after the season he just had? Hardly worth the gamble when your GM is constantly overpaying crummy UFA players to begin with.

Obviously you aren't trading him in season last year with the team a serious contender, but this is a classic reminder of why you take care of your business with your best players well ahead of UFA.

I think this is the opposite of what happened, according to reports. The Flames made an offer and JG didn't want to discuss it. And 8x8 was the max that would have been offered back then - and rightly so.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Obviously BT will need to take accountability, still, we don't know the details. Let's wait to see where he signs and what he signs for before we bring out the pitch forks.

Personally what I find disappointing about this situation is if Gaudreau wants to stay, he doesn’t appear to be taking any type of discount. I do believe in maximizing your salary but I believe if any player is happy with their current long tenured team, they should be taking some discount. If he was, it would be signed and delivered by now. So either Tre did not pick up any indicators they’d be pushing for the max, or Gaudreau’s agent has changed course. As much as I want to blame Treliving, I’m inclined agents are more likely to change course. Hard to blame Treliving if that’s the case, though he should have also seen this dragging out from time. It’s definitely not the best situation to be but I’m confident they have plan A-D outlined for different scenarios.