Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

If Johnny walks this is on Tre. This should have been done one way or another much sooner. Now he will get to handle Tkachuk too. Better step up his game.

You can say that..... if you know when the offers were made, how much they were, what Gross' response was, and when that came.

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

If Johnny walks this is on Tre. This should have been done one way or another much sooner. Now he will get to handle Tkachuk too. Better step up his game.

Sure if Tre can magically turn Calgary Alberta Canada into Salem County New Jersey USA and he didn't its on Tre.

Insert Broken WizardTre

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You don't know what was offered last year (it had to be last year prior to the powerful NTC kicking in). I suspect it was a decent offer - but based on Gaudreau's last 3 seasons. And Gaudreau rejected it to see what he could do to improve his numbers this year. What should Treliving had done - imagine a 110 point season in his head? He can't force Johnny to sign a contract. He could have traded him I suppose, but how much would he have gotten after two sub PPG seasons? You'd have called for his head if he did that.

As for this year, I can virtually guarantee they've made the highest total dollar offer to Gaudreau to stay here now.

If you can't come to a deal with your most valuable asset ahead of their FA year, you need to move him. I don't think he had the guts (or the rope) to make that decision. So maybe the blame lies higher, and lets be honest, it probably does, but this is the case. This team does not have the asset base to just let a massive hole be blown in it by our best player walking. That's his job, and he didn't do it. This team is no better (in a truly competitive fashion) than it was when he took over, and it's potentially about to get much worse. Short term and long term.

[littlereddevil]

Honestly, if Gaudreau doesn't re-sign with the Flames and is considering a U.S. team, I think Carolina would be a dark horse to sign him. Think about it... they have the cap space to pay him, are arguably a contender (and would be while he is in his prime), are in need of more goal-scorers/playmakers.

To be honest, as much as Philadelphia makes sense, they have no cap space to sign him. New Jersey are still years away from even making the playoffs.

Would Johnny really want to throw away the best years of his career to play for a team near the bottom of the league, just to be close to home?

Then again, I have no idea what Gaudreau really wants, whether it's money, a legacy, or to win.

[Lonestar]

Nevermind.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Something imposed from Treliving's side could have been done. Treliving could have said the team would negotiate up to that point in time and do everything to sign him, but if he didn't reach a decision by then the team would move forward on the assumption he wasn't signing and would start shopping his rights and making other signings, committing that money elsewhere.

And Gross would have said no, and reminded Treliving of the only 5 teams he was allowed to speak to without a waiver.

What other signings? Mangiapane and Tkachuk? Treliving isn't allowed to sign other players yet and certainly wasn't allowed to talk to pending UFAs a month ago or even now.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by nik-

Yeah, you're gonna have to elaborate on that one.

This is a colossal asset management blunder. He gambled and lost.

Obviously BT will need to take accountability, still, we don't know the details. Let's wait to see where he signs and what he signs for before we bring out the pitch forks.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

If Johnny walks this is on Tre. This should have been done one way or another much sooner. Now he will get to handle Tkachuk too. Better step up his game.

What does Gaudreau get in a trade last offseason?

He was coming off two seasons where he had a .85 PPG and there were alot of questions about his ability to perform in the playoffs.

Plus the whole league was in a cap crunch, the league was playing in a bubble, and there was a lot of uncertainty due to COVID.

You weren't dealing the 115 point superstar that you got this past season, his stock was pretty low.

My guess is the offers on the able were probably something like a 1st + Prospect + Cap Dump to offset salaries.

It's also what made an extension last summer hard. Flames wanted to lock in low, but in the end it sounds like Gaudreau made the decision to walk away from the offer and bet on himself.

I think you could make the case that keeping Gaudreau and trying to go on one last run was actually the right call, because at least it gave the Flames a decent season and the chance to keep negotiating to potentially keep him.

If Gaudreau was traded last offseason there is not even a chance he's back here.

If Gaudreau was traded for a 1st and a prospect last offseason, and then went on to have a 115 point season somewhere else then Nik and you would just be complaining about how Gaudreau was dealt for peanuts and how they were stupid not to keep him to try to re-sign him. There is no winning.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

If you can't come to a deal with your most valuable asset ahead of their FA year, you need to move him. I don't think he had the guts (or the rope) to make that decision. So maybe the blame lies higher, and lets be honest, it probably does, but this is the case. This team does not have the asset base to just let a massive hole be blown in it by our best player walking. That's his job, and he didn't do it. This team is no better (in a truly competitive fashion) than it was when he took over, and it's potentially about to get much worse. Short term and long term.

In like 90% of cases a players that still need to be extended in their last year do get extended. And you have no idea whether Johnny was saying he just wanted to play and would do a reasonable deal after the season.

I never said the team would be in good shape. I never even said Treliving should keep his job. I said this one isn't on him. No one would have traded Johnny Gaudreau at that point. Tell me what kind of deals would be available back then?

[Skaloper]

Originally Posted by nik-

If you can't come to a deal with your most valuable asset ahead of their FA year, you need to move him. I don't think he had the guts (or the rope) to make that decision. So maybe the blame lies higher, and lets be honest, it probably does, but this is the case. This team does not have the asset base to just let a massive hole be blown in it by our best player walking. That's his job, and he didn't do it. This team is no better (in a truly competitive fashion) than it was when he took over, and it's potentially about to get much worse. Short term and long term.

I think we are being way too hard on Treliving. How many players choose to jump teams when being a top player? The list is very short.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

Sad really. Its because they are so frequent its common place. Usually “rich” people arent as affected but the fact is that it is a real threat every time you go out in the states.

Yeah when i go out I pretty much just duck and run from one cover to another. Apparently tourism from Canada has disappeared entirely too.

[Lonestar]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And Gross would have said no, and reminded Treliving of the only 5 teams he was allowed to speak to without a waiver.

What other signings? Mangiapane and Tkachuk? Treliving isn't allowed to sign other players yet and certainly wasn't allowed to talk to pending UFAs a month ago or even now.

It's been discussed a lot on local and national outlets. The notion that UFAs don't know exactly who is interested and possess at least the framework of any potential deals until 12pm ET tomorrow is laughable. Gross has talked to other teams. There's no other explanation for 100 page contracts and tens of millions of dollars being accepted by central registry minutes after free-agency officially opens year after year.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Skaloper

I think we are being way too hard on Treliving. How many players choose to jump teams when being a top player? The list is very short.

I dunno, from my perspective that looks even worse. So few do it, but it's happening on his watch.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah when i go out I pretty much just duck and run from one cover to another. Apparently tourism from Canada has disappeared entirely too.

Lol. I like how Starbucks has foxhole in the waiting lines to help us stay safe

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

What does Gaudreau get in a trade last offseason?

He was coming off two seasons where he had a .85 PPG and there were alot of questions about his ability to perform in the playoffs.

Plus the whole league was in a cap crunch.

You weren't dealing the 115 point superstar that you got this past season, his stock was pretty low.

My guess is the offers on the able were probably something like a 1st + Prospect + Cap Dump to offset salaries.

It's also what made an extension last summer hard. Flames wanted to lock in low, but in the end it sounds like Gaudreau made the decision to walk away from the offer and bet on himself.

I think you could make the case that keeping Gaudreau and trying to go on one last run was actually the right call, because at least it gave the Flames a decent season and the chance to keep negotiating to potentially keep him.

If Gaudreau was traded last offseason there is not even a chance he's back here.

Also, If the team wasn’t playing well, they could have moved him at the deadline. He might be more valuable as a deadline rental anyway and that scenario left a bit of a hedge. Either we get one more run or cut bait at the deadline suits me fine as a fan.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

What does Gaudreau get in a trade last offseason?

He was coming off two seasons where he had a .85 PPG and there were alot of questions about his ability to perform in the playoffs.

Plus the whole league was in a cap crunch.

You weren't dealing the 115 point superstar that you got this past season, his stock was pretty low.

My guess is the offers on the able were probably something like a 1st + Prospect + Cap Dump to offset salaries.

It's also what made an extension last summer hard. Flames wanted to lock in low, but in the end it sounds like Gaudreau made the decision to walk away from the offer and bet on himself.

I think you could make the case that keeping Gaudreau and trying to go on one last run was actually the right call, because at least it gave the Flames a decent season and the chance to keep.

If Gaudreau was traded last offseason there is not even a chance he's back here.

This time last year we were all talking a deal that started with a 7. That was reasonable for the 3 previous years of production and lack of team success and also one that Gaudreau obviously was correct to reject - which was a gamble. Your return on a trade sounds right, and it wouldn't have been a high first either. It would come from a team expecting success. And it would have been on a one year rental price (not the trade deadline stupidity). Or maybe you'd have gotten NJ's 29th pick. Or maybe Fla's 30th Philly didn't even have a first to give.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

This is factually incorrect. Regehr was traded just before the start of free agency (to make room for the failed Brad Richards bid), which is like 6 months after christmas!

Regehr was actually moved to free up cap space to sign Tanguay:

https://flamesnation.ca/2020/05/24/w...ds-to-buffalo/

[Zoller]

Originally Posted by Lonestar

It's been discussed a lot on local and national outlets. The notion that UFAs don't know exactly who is interested and possess at least the framework of any potential deals until 12pm ET tomorrow is laughable. Gross has talked to other teams. There's no other explanation for 100 page contracts and tens of millions of dollars being accepted by central registry minutes after free-agency officially opens year after year.

Don't they have from midnight to noon to strike a deal?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Also, If the team wasn’t playing well, they could have moved him at the deadline. He might be more valuable as a deadline rental anyway and that scenario left a bit of a hedge. Either we get one more run or cut bait at the deadline suits me fine as a fan.

By then Gaudreau had a 5 team list. Which probably had teams that (a) didn't need him (Philly) (b) couldn't afford him (TB) or (c) would never be a trading partner in that magnitude of a trade (Edmonton).

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

Sad really. Its because they are so frequent its common place. Usually “rich” people arent as affected but the fact is that it is a real threat every time you go out in the states.

Dying in a random mass shooting is not a statistically significant threat. Dying from a hand gun in your house is probably about 1000 times more likely.