Star Wars : Episode IX (No Spoilers)

[Fuzz]

Supermatt, I think you mis-read why people didn't like Rian's treatment of Luke. It wasn't the exile, it was that Luke turned into a flippant unhelpful caricature. Luke's character has always been one who wanted to help. Most of all to his friends. Going into exile in TFA was, ideally, becuase he thought that would be the most help, to protect them. So when Rey arrives, Luke's character would have behaved more akin to Yoda in ESB than to what Rian created. It's not a subversion of expectations that is annoying, its the complete altering of the fundamental character of Luke, as Mark Hamill recognized early on.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Supermatt, I think you mis-read why people didn't like Rian's treatment of Luke. It wasn't the exile, it was that Luke turned into a flippant unhelpful caricature. Luke's character has always been one who wanted to help. Most of all to his friends. Going into exile in TFA was, ideally, becuase he thought that would be the most help, to protect them. So when Rey arrives, Luke's character would have behaved more akin to Yoda in ESB than to what Rian created. It's not a subversion of expectations that is annoying, its the complete altering of the fundamental character of Luke, as Mark Hamill recognized early on.

He thought letting the Jedi die was the best way to help the universe though, so in that sense he was still being true to himself. He still thought not helping train a Jedi was the best way to break the cycle.

[CaptainCrunch]

You know though it just seems so counter to Luke and what he's learned that he would have this belief in his mind that a universe that was plunging into the darkness would somehow be served by him going into exile and dying and not training that next generation of force users in the light side.


Its almost insane troll logic by Rian that made little to no sense, and I think he even realized that his justification was wrong and stupid in the end.


But when he was saying, it was our hubrus that allowed Palpatine to rise and destroy the Jedi, then instead of hiding from that similar rise in darkness, then do away with the Jedi arrogance and entitlement that lead to the fall of the light side of the force.


When his actions caused Kylo to fall, instead of going into exile the old Luke would have said, I'm the same guy who went after my father when everyone else said I was stupid on a mission of redemption.


Luke's reasoning beyond the really silly humor, and the stupid side storylines and then nonsensical slow motion start ship chase, was the biggest thing that irked me about the film.


Mark Hamill was right, the Luke Skywalker in the ST, was not the Luke Skywalker from the OT, he was willing to let the galaxy be consumed and ruled by the Dark Side because of reasons that made no sense.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

He thought letting the Jedi die was the best way to help the universe though, so in that sense he was still being true to himself. He still thought not helping train a Jedi was the best way to break the cycle.

And they could have gone with that, too. He didn't have to train Rey, but she came seeking help for his friends. And he just ignores that? That is what was out of character for him.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

And they could have gone with that, too. He didn't have to train Rey, but she came seeking help for his friends. And he just ignores that? That is what was out of character for him.

Not only that, but when he refused to originally train Rey, and she was pretty much getting ready to leave, he was going to unleash a powerful untrained force user on the galaxy who would be incredibly vulnerable to a fall to the Dark Side of the Force.


That to me made so little sense, especially when he was trained by Yoda who was worried about sending him out on the galaxy before he was ready because he was vulnerable to the seductive powers of the dark side.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think in retrospect this was the mistake that was made - they should have just left the Prequel trilogies and Original trilogies as their own thing. There should have never been a movie with Hans/Luke/Leia again, and they should not have tried to directly link this trilogy to that trilogy.

That trilogy should have just been left untouched, and a new universe with Star Wars lore such as force powers, and lightsabers should have been kicked off with just the stories of Hans/Luke/Leia/Vader as "stories" from the past in that new universe.

In retrospect now all this new trilogy serves to do is break the links to the original trilogy, in order to now move forward with a Star Wars universe where the OT characters are dead. When really they could have just time jumped 100 years with the same end result and not having to piss off the Star Wars mega fans.

Totally agree. Go in a new direction and let the story stand on it's own, people will have their judgement from there but at least it would have a point. TFA was a "safe" movie which I don't blame Disney for doing as a shareholder, but it makes for crappy movies that lean heavily on superior predecessors. They were so eager to jump back in to the old nostalgia feels that the new movies lack context and backstory, I have no idea why I should care about the characters or the villians.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I’m already at the point where I wouldn’t even be mad if they remade episodes I-III and VII-IX in 10 years. I’d say now but it’s too soon. The original trilogy should remain untouched.

Speaking of which apparently JJ asked Disney to release the original theatrical versions and they said they can’t and that it’ll never happen. Leading to speculation Lucas actually made it a condition as part of the sale to Disney.

[Fuzz]

Not a remake though, more of a reboot. But ya, I'd be all for a new origin story and conclusion to the OT.

[zamler]

Thankfully 4K77 4K80 (not complete) and 4K83 are out there so we can enjoy the films in their original form. Well as much as possible. George Lucas is being a complete arsehole by insisting his "improved" versions are the only official releases.

Anyway EP IX from everything I've read so far is a legit terrible film.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I’m already at the point where I wouldn’t even be mad if they remade episodes I-III and VII-IX in 10 years. I’d say now but it’s too soon. The original trilogy should remain untouched.

Speaking of which apparently JJ asked Disney to release the original theatrical versions and they said they can’t and that it’ll never happen. Leading to speculation Lucas actually made it a condition as part of the sale to Disney.

I would actually love to see Ep 1-3 remade, or even one epic movie telling that story properly with a great director at the helm. The Anakin to Darth story is the part of the Star Wars that should have been really powerful. It might even be the essential part of the Star Wars story.

The Disney trilogy doesn't need to be remade and doesn't even need to exist. In my mind it doesn't exist. Stricken from the record.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I would actually love to see Ep 1-3 remade, or even one epic movie telling that story properly with a great director at the helm. The Anakin to Darth story is the part of the Star Wars that should have been really powerful. It might even be the essential part of the Star Wars story.

The Disney trilogy doesn't need to be remade and doesn't even need to exist. In my mind it doesn't exist. Stricken from the record.

Revenge of the Sith could have really been split into two movies, I've said it repeatedly. The two scenes in the novel. The one where Anakin learns that Palpatine was a Sith Lord, and the second scene after Anakin helps Palpatine kill Mace were incredibly well done and went a long way in showing the final steps in his seduction to the Dark Side.


As well in the book the scene where Anakin murders the separatists had a lot of really dark moments in it, and some of the things that Anakin says while executing it, were absolutely amazing.

[Harry Lime]

I really did like Revenge of the Sith better than the first two, but it was hard to crawl back from the scene when Palpatine says, "Alright, you're on the Dark Side now. So go kill a bunch of children, and I'll make zoodles and crackers for when you get back."

Still, that was much less jarring than most of what happened in TLJ.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I really did like Revenge of the Sith better than the first two, but it was hard to crawl back from the scene when Palpatine says, "Alright, you're on the Dark Side now. So go kill a bunch of children, and I'll make zoodles and crackers for when you get back."

Still, that was much less jarring than most of what happened in TLJ.

RoTS has enough kooky dialogue ("how did this happen? we're smarter than this!" and "another happy landing!") that I actually think I'd enjoy a Lucas director's edition of it that includes the even cornier stuff that was cut. like when they first meet Grievous and Obi Wan and Anakin spend a good minute communicating with comical baseball hand signals.

I will never watch the cultural vandalism that is the OT special editions, but I think George should be free to continue updating the PT films since those are more fully his singular vision.

[N-E-B]

The prequel trilogy doesn’t need to be remade. They are gold.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Comedy gold? Like watching The Room, Sharknado or Battlefield Earth? The dialog, pacing, acting and plot are certainly all on par.

[N-E-B]

They are cinematic masterpieces that should be preserved for eternity in a museum. I have a different outlook on them since I was 5-10 years old when they came out. 10 year old me could not believe that Palpatine was really Darth Sidious. 5 year old me loved Jar Jar Binks. They’re cheesy, rely too heavily on CGI, and the dialogue is poorly written but I love them.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I really did like Revenge of the Sith better than the first two, but it was hard to crawl back from the scene when Palpatine says, "Alright, you're on the Dark Side now. So go kill a bunch of children, and I'll make zoodles and crackers for when you get back."

Still, that was much less jarring than most of what happened in TLJ.

So Anakin agreed with Palpatine to slaughter all of the Jedi, but not for the reason that Palpatine was thinking.


Anakin knew that the moment that he turned that the Jedi would never accept him turning to the Dark Side of the Force even though Anakin thought that the Jedi would never accept anything that he did.


At the same time Anakin convinced himself that the Jedi wouldn't allow he and Padme's children to be raised by Anakin and would try to kidnap them.


The chilling scene is when he went into the room with the younglings. The dark side basically told him "They are abandoned and alone, they would be better off dead"

[djsFlames]

I watched the YT review from a guy I trust well.

I was quite encouraged by what he had to say. Sounds like the people he spoke to with a lot of gripes about it were fans of the detour that TLJ took and were hoping for more of that. The other concern from people was pacing (things move very quickly?) but my guy says he think it was actually an improvement from both TFA and TLJ.

The OT movies were far from flawless themselves but it was the emotional payoffs that really reel you in, and I'm hearing the second half brings plenty of that, and that's what excites me most. High stakes, dark tone and big hurrah moments. That's what I want.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I watched the YT review from a guy I trust well.

I was quite encouraged by what he had to say. Sounds like the people he spoke to with a lot of gripes about it were fans of the detour that TLJ took and were hoping for more of that. The other concern is pacing but my guy says he think its actually an improvement from both TFA and TLJ.

The OT movies were far from flawless themselves but it was the emotional payoffs that really reel you in, and I'm hearing the second half brings plenty of that, and that's what excites me most. High stakes, dark tone and big hurrah moments. That's what I want.

Yeah - I've read most of the spoiler free reviews today and this is my takeaway.

People who wanted more of TFA, and didn't like TLJ will enjoy this movie.

People who really liked TLJ will be frustrated with the movie because it kind of moves away from the direction of that movie. Which would explain why critics wouldn't like it, most really enjoyed TLJ and this one is a departure from that direction.

The one main "film making" complaint is that the pacing is really quick as they try to close off the trilogy - which aligns to some previous rumors that stated at one point they had contemplated going the Harry Potter / Infinity War route and doing a Episode 9 - Part 1, and Episode 9 - Part 2.

Personally I'm still really excited for it, and look forward to 7:00 tomorrow night.

[FireGilbert]

Hearing the film is more like TFA than TLJ has me excited. Hearing the film is 2.25 hours of fan service filled with plot holes and ex machina does not. Overall I'm kind of a big meh but am planning on going on Monday because I need to know how they wrap the story up.