Francis: Treliving filled with disappointment, anger after team's collapse

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I really don't mind calling for firings at the NHL level, as it's the do it league, the best league. But one thing I hope posters can rise above when it actually happens is cheering and high fiving over it.

I really hope we're above that and everyone realizes that the appropriate discussion at that point is who the best candidates are and how we hope they coach.

I think you already know the answer to this.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

More to the point, not just any player can play the net-front role on the powerplay. Last year the Flames had a top-15 powerplay with Brouwer averaging even more ice time. It is not a stretch at all to see why he was the go-to-guy to fill in for injured players; nor is it a mystery to see why coaches did not consider his presence the problem.

I think there is too much focus on having a "big body" be the net front. Bennett and Hudler (and yes, Colborne) played this role pre-Brouwer and had more success.

As for our top 15 PP last year that had more to do with having one of the best second units (Giordano, Tkachuk, and Hamilton were all on PP2 and Backlund led the team in PP points). PP1 was a streaky mess last year too. This year both were a mess.

Between Ferland, Bennett, Jankowski, even Hathaway we had enough players who should have been netfront before Brouwer given his inability to recover loose pucks behind the net and recover.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Why do people care whether it happens today or a week from now?

Is it a better firing if it happens quicker?

I would suggest that the team would put itself AND the coach in better position to find a new coach / new employment if they are prudent. I doubt Hartley or Treliving benefited from the way it went down last time.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

As someone trying to decide if it is even worthwhile renewing my season tickets, yes, it is a better firing if it happens quicker.

We have been STH since 2002 16 years and have already contacted the Flames Ticket manager not to bother asking for a ST renewal if Gulutzan is not fired by then. That if the Flames want us to care and spend our money then they as a professional organization starting with Treliving has to show the fans he cares by leading the way to the fans and fire Gulutzan.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

You’re going to make the decision based on that? And then when a new coach is hired hop onto the 2 year waiting list. Come on.

No. That's why many of us want the firing of Gulutzan to happen before the deadline to renew.

I'm in the same boat. This was the worst season for me personally in 12 years. I actively chose not to go to most games as I just ended up mad and frustrated due to on ice product (not even going to talk about the tired off ice product-after comparing the Saddledome experience to games in Vegas and Dallas this year)

And I guarantee there is no real season ticket waiting list anymore.

[Flamenspiel]

Same here, I don't care about the arena scenario but I would like to see an NHL coach in place before I renew.

[Aarongavey]

I suspect my brother is in the same boat with his season's. We have had them since 97, became his exclusively when I moved across the country for work in 2014, but I have never heard him as angry as this year, from Gulutzan as coach to BT burning through picks. I told him the Tier One fans were too close to the action, when you step back and become a Tier two fan and only waste the money on center ice you can see the brilliance of the BT and GG plan for the Flames.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by chedder

No. That's why many of us want the firing of Gulutzan to happen before the deadline to renew.

I'm in the same boat. This was the worst season for me personally in 12 years. I actively chose not to go to most games as I just ended up mad and frustrated due to on ice product (not even going to talk about the tired off ice product-after comparing the Saddledome experience to games in Vegas and Dallas this year)

And I guarantee there is no real season ticket waiting list anymore.

It’s there, I was on it. Just like our GM most people try to not make big decisions based on their emotions.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

You’re going to make the decision based on that? And then when a new coach is hired hop onto the 2 year waiting list. Come on.

There's a waiting list for some sections, but if you want new season tickets today, you could walk into the Saddledome office and buy them.

But that's beyond the point. I've been here through the Young Guns days and through the long decline as the team deluded itself into thinking it's a contender. And despite that, the Flames under Gulutzan have been the most frustrating, least interesting team I've ever had the misfortune of paying money to watch. I'm not saying I will definitely cancel if Gulutzan is retained, but I already spent far too much time this year thinking about all the other things I could have spent that money on. If I come back, and he comes back, and we have another wasted year, then I can't see any way I come back for 2019-20, even though the team would have no choice at that point but to make changes.

The point is, if I walk away as a season ticket holder, I'm not coming back in a couple years. I'll still watch religiously and I'll still attend a few games a year. But if I trade my season tickets for an annual vacation in Europe, well, there's a lot of places I'd like to go visit.

And lets be honest here. If Treliving still thinks Gulutzan is a guy who can lead this team anywhere, then the Flames are going nowhere until both of them are gone. And that's not going to happen until we've blown our window with Gaudreau and Monahan and we rebuild the rebuild.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Yeah for sure you can walk in and buy them... but you better be a CEO because there is nothing reasonable available.

And this is my point, if you are weighing tickets vs trips to Europe you really need to base this decision off more than a coach (who’s life span 100% ends at the latest next year... unless they are an incredible team to watch and make it comfortably into the playoffs).

[Resolute 14]

really need to base this decision off more than a coach

I am, try reading my post next time. Also, don't be so arrogant as to presume to tell me what I should do or think.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Yeah, that wasn’t remotely close to my intention.

But since you mentioned arrogance, I do find it hilarious when STH’s come in here waiving their arms around demanding changes.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Yeah, that wasn’t remotely close to my intention.

But since you mentioned arrogance, I do find it hilarious when STH’s come in here waiving their arms around demanding changes.

Ummm there are a lot of people demanding change, not just season ticket folk.

[Erick Estrada]

I couldn't fault any season ticket holder for cancelling their tickets if Gulutzan is brought back. The past two seasons have been amongst the least entertaining I can remember. This season in particular was a chore to watch most nights even when they were winning. At the end of the day sports is all about entertainment value and there's just not a lot of entertainment value in Gulutzan hockey.

[Saqe]

Not sure if it was posted here, but that gif where Treliving completely ignores Bergevin while walking by him was hilarious.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Ummm there are a lot of people demanding change, not just season ticket folk.

And I’m one of them. Just not arrogant enough to think that threats from me personally reflect the opinion of all Flames fans.

[Timbo]

I have to disagree Scroopy...Arrogance? You only have one voice so people use it. Say nothing get nothing. One voice often resonates to so much more when it is echoed by many.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

And I’m one of them. Just not arrogant enough to think that threats from me personally reflect the opinion of all Flames fans.

It isn't a threat, it's a personal opinion. People choose to either buy tickets or not. Any time people cancel seasons tickets or game packs the rep will ask them why, and if their reasoning is they don't agree with the direction of the team then good for them for canceling.

As a fan the only thing that matters to management is your money, if you want change the only way to be heard is stop buying tickets and merchandise.

[The Boy Wonder]

As a non STH I can tell you that most non STH fans think the same way.

Just ask around the water cooler at work or at school or wherever what people think of the flames and the general concensus is that they were boring and that the coach has sucked this year. Probably 80% of people I talk to about the flames, even super casual fans.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

You’re going to make the decision based on that? And then when a new coach is hired hop onto the 2 year waiting list. Come on.

Ken King is that you?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Red

When was Brouwer ever lighting it up? Man this is beyond rediculous. Find me a F with 0 PP goals that played as much PP as Brouwer here. In this league or any other league.

This caught my eye as I was catching up on this thread, wanted to just point out that it’s pretty easy thing to show. As much of an anchor we believe Brouwer to be on the PP, we’re not the only league with one.

Sorted by PP TOI:
H. Sedin VAN - 237 min - 0G (17A)
R. Getzlag ANA - 157 min - 0G (13A)
V. Sobotka STL - 137 min - 0G (3A)
A. Ladd NYI - 127 min - 0G (1A)
J. Armia WPG - 117 min - 0G (4A)
P. Sharp CHI - 107 min - 0G (4A)
Z. Smith OTT - 103 min - 0G (3A)
T. Brouwer CGY - 93 min - 0G (5A)
S. Milano CBJ - 91 min - 0G (4A)
C. Coyle MIN - 90 min - 0G (3A)

So, while the top two guys contributed with assists, Brouwer has pretty similar numbers to the rest of the group. He’s not very good, but we need to stop acting like GG putting him on the PP makes Gulutzan remarkably bad. Coaches like Maurice and Quenville did the exact same thing.