The Whoas! of Dougie Hamilton

[DeluxeMoustache]

When people say 6’5”, I don’t read ‘crushing people’.

I read ‘expected to not simply let Evander Kane mosey past really, really easily, and score at will’.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People are making a false assumption here that strong defensive play = crushing people. It doesn't. Nik Lidstrom was the most effective defensive player in the league, and he didn't crush anybody. Marc-Eduard Vlasic is one of the best defensive players in the league today and he doesn't crush anyone either.

But... But.. But... Crushing = Truculence = Best



All kidding a side, I think Calgary regardless of how Dougie plays needs to explore any trade option should people be inquiring.
I think he's our best asset in terms of potential acquisition of a top 6 RW + recoup of a first round pick. If we have to make that trade then we do it.

Both Rasmus and Juuso are close to ready, if we can net an impact scoring RW (Nylander from Toronto for example) I think you have to pull the trigger.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I think Dougie can still learn how to become a better defensive player, but even if he's just average defensively, I'm ok with that when you consider the offensive game that he brings.

My problem is that I wish he was harder to play against. I don't need him to smash people, but I don't see him elevate his play in big games. This is a symptom of the entire team aside from a handful of competitive guys like Tkachuk, but Hamilton doesn't seem to have that edge you would hope to see in your top players. Guys that badly want to make a difference on the ice. I just want to see a slightly more competitive edge from Hamilton. I can live with the defensive warts if he brings it more in big games.

[flamesfever]

I look at a trade as being particularly advantageous for the Flames, as it would potentially not only give us the added scoring ability, but it would allow us to try and get Brodie back to his true potential by putting him back with Gio. It would also be a good deal for the party that gets Dougie.

I think the best deals in hockey are the ones where both sides benefit equally from the trade, although fans tend to expect, or dwell on, the opposite.

[Husky]

If Dougie is traded it should not be for a "top 6 forward" it has to be for an established 1st line forward.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Husky

If Dougie is traded it should not be for a "top 6 forward" it has to be for an established 1st line forward.

An established, young, under team control for a long time 1st line forward.

[Big Erned Nevergivn]

Some people's opinion of Hamilton makes my brain hurt. No hockey player is perfect! But we have a young, cost controlled, high scoring D-man with unreal possession stats, that has received norris votes and has trended upwards ever single year. Oh and he happens to be 6'5 and skate like a "deer".

But he isn't physical enough and has some gaffes in the d-zone (at 24 yo), so lets trade our arguably most valuable asset for a winger!! That makes perfect sense..

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

An established, young, under team control for a long time 1st line forward.

McDavid? Okay, I guess...but only if Edmonton retains some of his salary.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Big Erned Nevergivn

Some people's opinion of Hamilton makes my brain hurt. No hockey player is perfect! But we have a young, cost controlled, high scoring D-man with unreal possession stats, that has received norris votes and has trended upwards ever single year. Oh and he happens to be 6'5 and skate like a "deer".

But he isn't physical enough and has some gaffes in the d-zone (at 24 yo), so lets trade our arguably most valuable asset for a winger!! That makes perfect sense..

When he left Boston he was 42 pts in 72, or 48 point pace.

If by trending up, you mean flat like a pancake, then yes.

[dammage79]

All trade options should be explored. And I'm confident all trade options will be explored.
It's evident Flames brass are fully aware they need more and with limited assets to trade while keeping eveyone is pretty non existent unless folks are happy trading more prospect and future pieces away. Which I do not think is probable.

If it's Dougie, it's Dougie, if its another player, it is them.

If we are going to make guesses as to who may not be traded, I'd guess Gio and Tkachuk as the base two. How the rest of this list shakes out will be discovered during Trelvings evaluation process.

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

When he left Boston he was 42 pts in 72, or 48 point pace.

If by trending up, you mean flat like a pancake, then yes.

In a system that focused heavily on defensive activation. He also had first line PP minutes all season. However facts are no fun, its better the just hate that a player cannot be everything all of the time.

Ferland wasn’t scoring but hitting and everyone wanted him to score. He starts scoring (because he spends less time in the box and less time beaten down from physical play) and everyone wants him to start hitting again.

We need to stop trying to make people into what they are not.
Hamilton is an extremely effective offensive threat and an average defender. If it was so easy there would be hundreds of them. Also if he was both his contract would be North of 10 million.

I get it, the season sucked, they under performed. Trading one of your affordable young top 5 scorers in an attempt to get a top 5 scorer doesn't make whole lot of sense.

[VladtheImpaler]

We can keep going around in circles with this, but presumably (hopefully?) BT, BB, Conroy, scouts should have a better idea than us fans as to whether Hamilton will become Hedman or Keith Yandle. They are also presumably in position to know if there any character/off-ice issues. The odd treatment of Hamilton by the otherwise cheerleading media is food for thought...

[Classic_Sniper]

Dougie has some great raw tools, but there are a ton of issues in his game that he needs to start addressing because I've seen them since the day he arrived and it's still in his game today.

Cons:
- Takes a lot of bad obstruction penalties due to his mental lapses, being caught out of position and footwork
- Bad pinches: Leaves Gio fending off odd man rushes too often because of his frequent ill-advised pinches
- Needs to defend better down low: is not tough enough to play against in front of the net and below the hashmarks


With that said, I'd still keep Hamilton as his goal scoring ability is as good as it gets from the back end and I think he can be a 20+ goal defensemen and that could cover up for his gaffes. I don't mind his lack of physicality as it's not in his nature, but the bad penalties need to stop ASAP because this team is going to have a hard time winning consistently by constantly being one of the most penalized teams every year.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Dougie has some great raw tools, but there are a ton of issues in his game that he needs to start addressing because I've seen them since the day he arrived and it's still in his game today.

Cons:
- Takes a lot of bad obstruction penalties due to his mental lapses, being caught out of position and footwork
- Bad pinches: Leaves Gio fending off odd man rushes too often because of his frequent ill-advised pinches
- Needs to defend better down low: is not tough enough to play against in front of the net and below the hashmarks


With that said, I'd still keep Hamilton as his goal scoring ability is as good as it gets from the back end and I think he can be a 20+ goal defensemen and that could cover up for his gaffes. I don't mind his lack of physicality as it's not in his nature, but the bad penalties need to stop ASAP because this team is going to have a hard time winning consistently by constantly being one of the most penalized teams every year.

It seems that there is some sort of magic formula for team success in having a 20 - goal scoring D-man (Actually 17)

Hamilton scored as many goals as rookie 3rd line centre. Jankowski outscored Hamilton 13-11 at even strength and 2-0 while short handed.

Jankowski did not spend 90% of his ES ice time playing with Gio on the ice.

Jankowski actually got to kill penalties because he reads and understands the game better than Hamilton.

If people really believe that Hamilton has some sort of magic scoring talent he should be played at RW where his goal expectation should be 30-40 goals.

As for the Norris votes last year.... Sportswriters looking at the pts scoring summary voted for Hamilton at close to the same rate as they voted for Gio. If they voted for Hamilton over Gio they should have their vote taken away for life.

If Hamilton gets 1 vote this year based on his 17 goals the writer voting for him needs to be identified and severely mocked.

Byfuglien has scored more than 17 goals 3 out of the last 4 years. Pretty much every expert / analyst agrees that this year with his 8 goals is by far his best season as a defenseman.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

We can keep going around in circles with this, but presumably (hopefully?) BT, BB, Conroy, scouts should have a better idea than us fans as to whether Hamilton will become Hedman or Keith Yandle. They are also presumably in position to know if there any character/off-ice issues. The odd treatment of Hamilton by the otherwise cheerleading media is food for thought...

Keith Yandle had a terrific year for the Panthers, so probably not the best example. Asking Hamilton to become Hedman (a top 3 defenseman in the league) is probably expecting too much.

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It seems that there is some sort of magic formula for team success in having a 20 - goal scoring D-man (Actually 17)

Hamilton scored as many goals as rookie 3rd line centre. Jankowski outscored Hamilton 13-11 at even strength and 2-0 while short handed.

Jankowski did not spend 90% of his ES ice time playing with Gio on the ice.

Jankowski actually got to kill penalties because he reads and understands the game better than Hamilton.

If people really believe that Hamilton has some sort of magic scoring talent he should be played at RW where his goal expectation should be 30-40 goals.

As for the Norris votes last year.... Sportswriters looking at the pts scoring summary voted for Hamilton at close to the same rate as they voted for Gio. If they voted for Hamilton over Gio they should have their vote taken away for life.

If Hamilton gets 1 vote this year based on his 17 goals the writer voting for him needs to be identified and severely mocked.

Byfuglien has scored more than 17 goals 3 out of the last 4 years. Pretty much every expert / analyst agrees that this year with his 8 goals is by far his best season as a defenseman.

How's his GRIT index or whatever you called it?

Hamilton is a far better hockey player than Giordano was at the same age. It took Hedman FOUR seasons to scratch the surface of his potential at age 24 when he really broke out. It's not the writers that need to be identified and severely mocked. Hamilton is 24 and performing at a very high level.

I get it, you want old timer hockey, it's cool but it's also 2018 when speed and talent wins.

The WUT!? level of this forum is reaching critical stage.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It seems that there is some sort of magic formula for team success in having a 20 - goal scoring D-man (Actually 17)

Hamilton scored as many goals as rookie 3rd line centre. Jankowski outscored Hamilton 13-11 at even strength and 2-0 while short handed.

Jankowski did not spend 90% of his ES ice time playing with Gio on the ice.

Jankowski actually got to kill penalties because he reads and understands the game better than Hamilton.

If people really believe that Hamilton has some sort of magic scoring talent he should be played at RW where his goal expectation should be 30-40 goals.

As for the Norris votes last year.... Sportswriters looking at the pts scoring summary voted for Hamilton at close to the same rate as they voted for Gio. If they voted for Hamilton over Gio they should have their vote taken away for life.

If Hamilton gets 1 vote this year based on his 17 goals the writer voting for him needs to be identified and severely mocked.

Byfuglien has scored more than 17 goals 3 out of the last 4 years. Pretty much every expert / analyst agrees that this year with his 8 goals is by far his best season as a defenseman.

Not sure why you're comparing Jankowski to Hamilton here, very odd comparison as they play completely different positions. Guy isn't perfect and he drives me nuts a lot of times as I absolutely loathe the penalties he takes, but his shot is absolutely lethal and the pairing of Gio and Hamilton was more than adequate this season.

Actually, of all our positions this season, I thought the defense was the most consistent of all. Our forward depth needs a major overhaul though and I'm more interested in trading one of our prospects rather than current defensemen on the roster or acquiring short term, higher end forwards with the large amount of cap space we have this offseason. We need to add more, not subtract. Fill holes, don't dig them.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by getbak

McDavid? Okay, I guess...but only if Edmonton retains some of his salary.

They'd have to take some salary back, too. Brouwer?

[GioforPM]

Hamilton takes less penalties than Backlund, in more minutes. He takes fewer than Hamonic, who I like a lot. He took Pretty much exactly the same as Gio.

I just don't see all the "dumb" penalties. Some are, some are normal "got beat and hooked the guy" that happen to all defencemen, and some weren't even penalties, but were actually really good defensive plays (go to the GTs for those).

He's an offensive specialist, but not a defensive liability IMO, not like Brodie or Stone, who I think is overrated in his own end as far as puck battles, clearing the net front and making good positional decisions.

I have also repeatedly said that IMO he gets a bad rap on effort, just because he doesn't take as many strides and the ones he takes are so smooth.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hamilton takes less penalties than Backlund, in more minutes. He takes fewer than Hamonic, who I like a lot. He took Pretty much exactly the same as Gio.

I just don't see all the "dumb" penalties. Some are, some are normal "got beat and hooked the guy" that happen to all defencemen, and some weren't even penalties, but were actually really good defensive plays (go to the GTs for those).

He's an offensive specialist, but not a defensive liability IMO, not like Brodie or Stone, who I think is overrated in his own end as far as puck battles, clearing the net front and making good positional decisions.

I have also repeatedly said that IMO he gets a bad rap on effort, just because he doesn't take as many strides and the ones he takes are so smooth.

Very accurate and objective analysis.